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WELCOME new member AMaizawing (April 03, 2020)


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Ukraine v Russia War Thread
#85
When did Ukraine be one a full member of NATO? As far as Iâ€m concerned, if they were a member, then the full weight of the US military should be used to defend Ukraine.

They arenâ€t a member. I canâ€t support American troops being in harmâ€s way for Ukraine.

Now a cyber attack knocking out all power grids in Moscow during the coldest part of the winter? I would support that kind of response. The US could send blankets and body bags.


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#86
(01-28-2022, 09:09 AM)Georgem80 Wrote: When did Ukraine be one a full member of NATO?  As far as Iâ€m concerned, if they were a member, then the full weight of the US military should be used to defend Ukraine. 

They arenâ€t a member. I canâ€t support American troops being in harmâ€s way for Ukraine. 

Now a cyber attack knocking out all power grids in Moscow during the coldest part of the winter?  I would support that kind of response.  The US could send blankets and body bags.


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I thought they were some level of member. Which is why nato wants to put the misspelling defense system there. 

to your point, reports Iâ€m seeing here and there are that Ukraine wants to fight their own battles, but needs support. Iâ€m all for giving air support, cyber support etc

No longer GroupThink 'woke'.  but it was fun while it lasted.
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#87
(01-28-2022, 09:09 AM)Georgem80 Wrote: When did Ukraine be one a full member of NATO? As far as Iâ€m concerned, if they were a member, then the full weight of the US military should be used to defend Ukraine.

They arenâ€t a member. I canâ€t support American troops being in harmâ€s way for Ukraine.

Now a cyber attack knocking out all power grids in Moscow during the coldest part of the winter? I would support that kind of response. The US could send blankets and body bags.


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Personally I wouldn't care if they attacked france or England.

Let's get real man, when we have wars those nations send a pittance of help, but you want "the full weight of our military" to help them.

Personally I'll file that under, Not My Problem.

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#88
They aren't part of NATO. i get wanting to limit Russia's expansion, but do we want an other Vietnam sometime?

I agree denying them Ukraine's resources is beneficial to us, but Id limit it to what George said. Cyber Ops, intelligence for Ukraine's Army, some old munitions, that sort of thing.

But I hate the thought that we are sending billions that are badly needed at home.

I guess, I want to feel like Davebuck, but it seems to me to possibly be shortsided. If we wait till they and China dominate Asia and half of Europe, it might be too late. But I am tired of our World Cop role and constantly keeping the military industrial complex alive and kicking. 700 billion a year in defense is insane.
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#89
They aren't part of NATO, but they've been begging to be for a long time. The European countries didn't want to vote to allow them entry because they believed Russia would make a move against them at some point, and they didn't want to be responsible for their defense. Well, here we are. I simply fail to see the upside of letting Russia expand once again. A coordinated NATO response would force them to back down. There really is little downside.

As for saying the UK doesn't send much support, I highly disagree. They've been right there alongside us in both Afghanistan and Iraq. If there are two allies we can count on, it's the UK and Australia. Neither have the resources we do, or even close, but they send a good deal of help proportional to their abilities.
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#90
The UK is a solid ally. France and Germany? Welfare recipients and essentially worthless as allies.
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#91
(01-28-2022, 09:15 AM)Alabuckeye Wrote:
(01-28-2022, 09:09 AM)Georgem80 Wrote: When did Ukraine be one a full member of NATO?  As far as Iâ€m concerned, if they were a member, then the full weight of the US military should be used to defend Ukraine. 

They arenâ€t a member. I canâ€t support American troops being in harmâ€s way for Ukraine. 

Now a cyber attack knocking out all power grids in Moscow during the coldest part of the winter?  I would support that kind of response.  The US could send blankets and body bags.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I thought they were some level of member. Which is why nato wants to put the misspelling defense system there. 

to your point, reports Iâ€m seeing here and there are that Ukraine wants to fight their own battles, but needs support. Iâ€m all for giving air support, cyber support etc
Theyâ€re getting slaughtered and know it.
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#92
(01-28-2022, 10:12 AM)wydileie Wrote: They aren't part of NATO, but they've been begging to be for a long time. The European countries didn't want to vote to allow them entry because they believed Russia would make a move against them at some point, and they didn't want to be responsible for their defense. Well, here we are. I simply fail to see the upside of letting Russia expand once again. A coordinated NATO response would force them to back down. There really is little downside.

As for saying the UK doesn't send much support, I highly disagree. They've been right there alongside us in both Afghanistan and Iraq. If there are two allies we can count on, it's the UK and Australia. Neither have the resources we do, or even close, but they send a good deal of help proportional to their abilities.

Your coordinated NATO response would be the US providing 90% of men and material (AKA blood and treasure).  No thanks.  If they agree to the opposite (they supply all the blood and we kick in 10% treasure), then I'm all in.
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#93
Yeah that'll be the day. Germans and the French taking on the bulk of the actual fighting. That's exactly what we should do. Have it boys, here's a couple of bucks.
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#94
If NATO puts together a coordinated response, there would be no attack in the first place. Russia is well aware there is zero chance they could win any sort of engagement with a NATO coalition. Simply showing up with support that we are willing to defend them is all that is required.
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#95
Yeah, who wants to be the first guy to actually shoot a gun/missle/arty shell at someone?? No one wants to start WW3, even Putin. This is mostly saber rattling, but he needs to believe that NATO will respond if he crosses the line.

Then he has to decide go or dont go.

And the more countries in NATO, the better, as long as they hold up their end. Less chance of a world war.
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#96
(01-28-2022, 10:59 AM)wydileie Wrote: If NATO puts together a coordinated response, there would be no attack in the first place. Russia is well aware there is zero chance they could win any sort of engagement with a NATO coalition. Simply showing up with support that we are willing to defend them is all that is required.
Please define what you mean by "Simply showing up".  Who, what, when and where?  All EU bodies and 90% funding by EU and I'm good.  Any more than that, f'em. 
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