The "tree of knowledge" explained

[Blinky]

And why do you think that India, which is in the part of the world where Hinduism began, to this day, is almost entirely Hindu?

How old were the Euro-Pagan religions?

That's not an answer to my question.

My goal was not to answer your question, it was to expose your point as pointless. 

Europe and India were both nearby, and both had established religions. One converted to Christianity, the other didn't.

I'll try again... do you believe that the fact that Hinduism had been established for thousands of years had anything to do with it?  Do you believe that God, all-knowing guy that he is, knew that India would be 80% Hindu today, thereby condemning 80% of children born there to an eternity in hell?

You have a lot of nerve asking so many questions when you routinely duck all of ours.

[Hightop77]

How old were the Euro-Pagan religions?

That's not an answer to my question.

My goal was not to answer your question, it was to expose your point as pointless. 

Europe and India were both nearby, and both had established religions. One converted to Christianity, the other didn't.

I'll try again... do you believe that the fact that Hinduism had been established for thousands of years had anything to do with it?  Do you believe that God, all-knowing guy that he is, knew that India would be 80% Hindu today, thereby condemning 80% of children born there to an eternity in hell?

You have a lot of nerve asking so many questions when you routinely duck all of ours.

Which of course is what trolling is all about.

[P1tchblack]

How old were the Euro-Pagan religions?

That's not an answer to my question.

My goal was not to answer your question, it was to expose your point as pointless. 

Europe and India were both nearby, and both had established religions. One converted to Christianity, the other didn't.

I'll try again... do you believe that the fact that Hinduism had been established for thousands of years had anything to do with it?  Do you believe that God, all-knowing guy that he is, knew that India would be 80% Hindu today, thereby condemning 80% of children born there to an eternity in hell?

You have a lot of nerve asking so many questions when you routinely duck all of ours.

You answered my question, which is not answer.  What question of yours did I duck?

[Blinky]

You've ducked damn near every question that I have ever asked you, which is fine. Nobody owes anyone any answer to any question.

Nevertheless, you have a lot of nerve demanding answers to your questions when you are the most notorious question dodger on this forum.

[P1tchblack]

Does anyone else think that India's population of Hindus, about 80%, is tied to the fact that their religion is about twice as old as Christianity and was already established when Christianity was starting to spread?  Does anyone else think it's "just" that 80% of the people born in India will spend eternity in hell for believing in the wrong God, when not one of them had any choice of where they were born or what they were taught as children?

[wydileie]

Does anyone else think that India's population of Hindus, about 80%, is tied to the fact that their religion is about twice as old as Christianity and was already established when Christianity was starting to spread?  Does anyone else think it's "just" that 80% of the people born in India will spend eternity in hell for believing in the wrong God, when not one of them had any choice of where they were born or what they were taught as children?

It's not like India doesn't know Christianity exists. They were the colony of a global Christian power for a couple centuries.

What's interesting to me in this question is why was Christianity able to be spread everywhere, and the Asian religions have largely remained stagnant in their locations? Christianity is really the only worldwide practiced religion. From Eastern Asia, to the Middle East, to Africa, Europe, S. America, N. America. Christianity has reached every corner of the globe with a not insignificant portion of the population practicing it.

Islam is the only other religion who can claim something similar, but they largely spread their message by the sword, and still are mostly concentrated in the ME and North Africa, with pockets in other areas. They aren't truly a worldwide religion with the reach of Christianity.

This, to me, is a strong counter to your question. God has enabled every corner of the world to hear his message. What one now does with that is up to them.

[Blinky]

Your argument was that India didn't have a chance to convert to Christianity because they had an established religion, and they weren't in the Middle East.

But the reality is that Europe and India both had old religions that had been there a long time, and they were both a similar distance from the Middle East.

One converted to Christianity, the other didn't.

Sounds like a textbook study on the concept of free will to me.

[P1tchblack]

Does anyone else think that India's population of Hindus, about 80%, is tied to the fact that their religion is about twice as old as Christianity and was already established when Christianity was starting to spread?  Does anyone else think it's "just" that 80% of the people born in India will spend eternity in hell for believing in the wrong God, when not one of them had any choice of where they were born or what they were taught as children?

It's not like India doesn't know Christianity exists. They were the colony of a global Christian power for a couple centuries.

I assume that you know of more than a few other religions that exist, but you very likely won't be converting any time soon because you, like most people, stick with the religion that you were taught as a child.

What's interesting to me in this question is why was Christianity able to be spread everywhere, and the Asian religions have largely remained stagnant in their locations? Christianity is really the only worldwide practiced religion. From Eastern Asia, to the Middle East, to Africa, Europe, S. America, N. America. Christianity has reached every corner of the globe with a not insignificant portion of the population practicing it.

I don't know this for a fact, but it's probably because Christians travel all over the world with at least a partial purpose of converting people. 

Islam is the only other religion who can claim something similar, but they largely spread their message by the sword, and still are mostly concentrated in the ME and North Africa, with pockets in other areas. They aren't truly a worldwide religion with the reach of Christianity.

This, to me, is a strong counter to your question. God has enabled every corner of the world to hear his message. What one now does with that is up to them.

There is a psychological reality about the influence of those around you, whether it be family, friends, etc.  If your parent are religious, then there's a high probability that you will also be religious and probably not one that is vastly different.  Mormon kids will jump on the opportunity to invite you to their church in an effort to pull you in early.

However, putting all religious influences aside, less than a third of the world is Christian, which means that most of the world is going to hell... something God knew when he positioned the revelation in a tiny portion of the middle east, rather than all over the world, right?  He could have revealed his message all over the world to give everyone an equal chance.

[3rdgensooner]

Does anyone else think that India's population of Hindus, about 80%, is tied to the fact that their religion is about twice as old as Christianity and was already established when Christianity was starting to spread?  Does anyone else think it's "just" that 80% of the people born in India will spend eternity in hell for believing in the wrong God, when not one of them had any choice of where they were born or what they were taught as children?

It's not like India doesn't know Christianity exists. They were the colony of a global Christian power for a couple centuries.

What's interesting to me in this question is why was Christianity able to be spread everywhere, and the Asian religions have largely remained stagnant in their locations? Christianity is really the only worldwide practiced religion. From Eastern Asia, to the Middle East, to Africa, Europe, S. America, N. America. Christianity has reached every corner of the globe with a not insignificant portion of the population practicing it.

Islam is the only other religion who can claim something similar, but they largely spread their message by the sword, and still are mostly concentrated in the ME and North Africa, with pockets in other areas. They aren't truly a worldwide religion with the reach of Christianity.

This, to me, is a strong counter to your question. God has enabled every corner of the world to hear his message. What one now does with that is up to them.

Your god thingy blows at this. Not everyone has "heard" in any way this all important message despite god thingy being all powerful. Maybe the majority of people who've lived haven't heard it.  Maybe you could get it some social media accounts so it can up it's game.

[Hightop77]

Two things that I want to call out here.. first, ht and K9/orbit believe in the same God and read the same book as their source for information on that God. Despite that, they really believe in completely separate gods. HTs is a vengeful dictator and, on the other side, is a God that is so graceful that he would admit someone to heaven that didn't believe in him, but was just a really good person. Both can find a scriptural basis for what they want to believe.

The second item to call out is this... Every single bad thing that happens is something that God could have prevented. Every child that is being raped right now, is being raped under the watchful eye of a God that has the ability to stop it. Every single rule that punishes a good person, like requiring the sacrifice of your own son, was put in place intentionally by the Christian God.  The same one that the majority of the posters here worship.

If God eliminated all evil in the world, no one would be here.  No one.

I've never advocated eliminating all evil. I'm questioning, the assertion that God is all-loving and all powerful.  You clearly do not believe that he is. Your god is much different than the one that many Christians believe in.

But you talk about selectively eliminating sin and evil.  Why should God only eliminate the sin and evil that you want him to eliminate?  Everyone is equally condemned.

Bump

[wydileie]

There is a psychological reality about the influence of those around you, whether it be family, friends, etc.  If your parent are religious, then there's a high probability that you will also be religious and probably not one that is vastly different.  Mormon kids will jump on the opportunity to invite you to their church in an effort to pu
However, putting all religious influences aside, less than a third of the world is Christian, which means that most of the world is going to hell... something God knew when he positioned the revelation in a tiny portion of the middle east, rather than all over the world, right?  He could have revealed his message all over the world to give everyone an equal chance.

People can change religions, there is nothing stopping someone from doing so. Paul speaks about this extensively across the book of Romans.

With all these questions and statements you are wanting God to absolve people of their responsibility, of their choices. You want God to eliminate free will. People are evil. Everyone is evil. This is an undeniable fact of nature. You are looking at it from the opposite perspective, that people are innately good, and God is evil for sending good people to hell. The default position is that people are evil and going to hell and God is rescuing the chosen few.

[P1tchblack]

Two things that I want to call out here.. first, ht and K9/orbit believe in the same God and read the same book as their source for information on that God. Despite that, they really believe in completely separate gods. HTs is a vengeful dictator and, on the other side, is a God that is so graceful that he would admit someone to heaven that didn't believe in him, but was just a really good person. Both can find a scriptural basis for what they want to believe.

The second item to call out is this... Every single bad thing that happens is something that God could have prevented. Every child that is being raped right now, is being raped under the watchful eye of a God that has the ability to stop it. Every single rule that punishes a good person, like requiring the sacrifice of your own son, was put in place intentionally by the Christian God.  The same one that the majority of the posters here worship.

If God eliminated all evil in the world, no one would be here.  No one.

I've never advocated eliminating all evil. I'm questioning, the assertion that God is all-loving and all powerful.  You clearly do not believe that he is. Your god is much different than the one that many Christians believe in.

But you talk about selectively eliminating sin and evil.  Why should God only eliminate the sin and evil that you want him to eliminate?  Everyone is equally condemned.

Bump

I didn't see this.....

It's not about what I, personally, want him to eliminate.  It's about what a truly all-loving/all-powerful being would do.  Would an all-loving/all-powerful being stand by and watch a child get raped or beaten?  Would YOU stand by and watch a child get raped or beaten if you were able to stop it with a wiggle of your nose?  What kind of person would you be if you had the ability to stop it, with .00001% effort, but chose not to?

[wydileie]

I didn't see this.....

It's not about what I, personally, want him to eliminate.  It's about what a truly all-loving/all-powerful being would do.  Would an all-loving/all-powerful being stand by and watch a child get raped or beaten?  Would YOU stand by and watch a child get raped or beaten if you were able to stop it with a wiggle of your nose?

You are still avoiding the question. You can't selectively have free will. Either you have it, or you don't. So you have to have a line in the sand of what you want from this "all loving God". In your mind, what sins should God intervene in? Should He stop people from being murdered? Should He stop war? Should He stop a spouse from cheating? Theft? Rape? Lying? Being mean to your little brother? Where are you drawing the line in what God should stop?

[P1tchblack]

There is a psychological reality about the influence of those around you, whether it be family, friends, etc.  If your parent are religious, then there's a high probability that you will also be religious and probably not one that is vastly different.  Mormon kids will jump on the opportunity to invite you to their church in an effort to pu
However, putting all religious influences aside, less than a third of the world is Christian, which means that most of the world is going to hell... something God knew when he positioned the revelation in a tiny portion of the middle east, rather than all over the world, right?  He could have revealed his message all over the world to give everyone an equal chance.

People can change religions, there is nothing stopping someone from doing so. Paul speaks about this extensively across the book of Romans.

Agree.  You could change to Muslim, Buddhist or Hindu tomorrow, but why don't you?

With all these questions and statements you are wanting God to absolve people of their responsibility, of their choices. You want God to eliminate free will. People are evil. Everyone is evil. This is an undeniable fact of nature. 

If you believe what the Bible says, man wasn't always evil.  Man didn't even know he was naked until eating from the Tree of Knowledge, right?  Why did man eat from the tree of knowledge... because God set him up, knowing he would eat the fruit because, again, God knows everything.

You are looking at it from the opposite perspective, that people are innately good, and God is evil for sending good people to hell. The default position is that people are evil and going to hell and God is rescuing the chosen few.

People are going to hell, presumably, because Adam ate the apple, right?  According to the Bible, God will come back to earth and make the earth how it was pre-tree of knowledge.  In other words, God setup Adam, knowing he would fail.  Then God reveals his son to a tiny portion of the world AFTER other religions had been established for thousands of year and then God set the rules that you have to believe in him to get to heaven... then he sits back and watch innocent children starving, getting raped, beaten and abused and does nothing about it and, thanks to his rules, about 2/3 of them, unless they are lucky enough to die in childhood, will believe in the wrong god, and can look forward to an eternity of torture after going through hell on earth because that's his rule.

[Hightop77]

If God eliminated all evil in the world, no one would be here.  No one.

I've never advocated eliminating all evil. I'm questioning, the assertion that God is all-loving and all powerful.  You clearly do not believe that he is. Your god is much different than the one that many Christians believe in.

But you talk about selectively eliminating sin and evil.  Why should God only eliminate the sin and evil that you want him to eliminate?  Everyone is equally condemned.

Bump

I didn't see this.....

It's not about what I, personally, want him to eliminate.  It's about what a truly all-loving/all-powerful being would do.  Would an all-loving/all-powerful being stand by and watch a child get raped or beaten?  Would YOU stand by and watch a child get raped or beaten if you were able to stop it with a wiggle of your nose?  What kind of person would you be if you had the ability to stop it, with .00001% effort, but chose not to?

You are not being honest.  You specifically chose certain instances of evil behavior that you expect God to intervene in and stop.  In God's eyes, the children being raped are just as condemned as the ones doing the raping.  As I said, if God removed all evil from the world, there would be no one here.  Now once again, why should God only eliminate the sin and evil that you don't like?