The "tree of knowledge" explained

[Alabuckeye]

Why yâ€all wasting your time with pitch on this?  He knows all things better than God, in effect heâ€s put himself in place of God.  There is nothing he should be unable to understand.

We are really only debating the "why's", which generally  turns into rationalizing.  I assume we all agree that the Christian God can stop whatever he wanted from happening, right?  If he doesn't have that power, then he really can't be considered a god.  Anything he does or doesn't do is by choice.

The point is, I could give you names of books that have done cultural, biblical research and speak to the issues that you raise BECAUSE they are thorny issues for a Christian. But you arenâ€t interested in an answer, you are interested in tearing down, in mocking.

[Hightop77]

Why yâ€all wasting your time with pitch on this?  He knows all things better than God, in effect heâ€s put himself in place of God.  There is nothing he should be unable to understand.

We are really only debating the "why's", which generally  turns into rationalizing.  I assume we all agree that the Christian God can stop whatever he wanted from happening, right?  If he doesn't have that power, then he really can't be considered a god.  Anything he does or doesn't do is by choice.

The point is, I could give you names of books that have done cultural, biblical research and speak to the issues that you raise BECAUSE they are thorny issues for a Christian. But you arenâ€t interested in an answer, you are interested in tearing down, in mocking.

Why yâ€all wasting your time with pitch on this?  

[Alabuckeye]

Why yâ€all wasting your time with pitch on this?  He knows all things better than God, in effect heâ€s put himself in place of God.  There is nothing he should be unable to understand.

We are really only debating the "why's", which generally  turns into rationalizing.  I assume we all agree that the Christian God can stop whatever he wanted from happening, right?  If he doesn't have that power, then he really can't be considered a god.  Anything he does or doesn't do is by choice.

The point is, I could give you names of books that have done cultural, biblical research and speak to the issues that you raise BECAUSE they are thorny issues for a Christian. But you arenâ€t interested in an answer, you are interested in tearing down, in mocking.

Why yâ€all wasting your time with pitch on this?  

I know, I know. 

[P1tchblack]

There is a substantial difference between knowing an all-powerful, all-knowing being exists and jail.

Yes, in the degree of effectiveness.

Jail is a deterrent, but there is still a more than zero chance you can get away with your crime, substantially so, in many cases.

Right, but you're looking at it from the criminal's side of things, not the victim's.

An all knowing, all powerful being cannot be fooled, He has all the evidence He needs, there is no choice left. Either you obey, or you know with 1 billion % confidence that you will go to hell.

I suspect you'd get significant push back from not only all other posters here, but also the Bible itself on that assertion.  If every sinner/wrongdoer went to hell, Heaven would be empty.

If you are saying that is in any way equivalent to the threat of jail and how it affects human behavior, then there is nothing left to discuss. We fundamentally disagree.

Again, you're only looking at it from the naughty person's POV.  God doesn't have to banish every would-be rapist/murder/homosexual sodomite to hell.  Any of them can change their ways, ask for forgiveness and be saved. He just needs to protect, at the very least, innocent children because any being with any sense of morality would do it.  I would.  You know you would.  I bet ALL posters here would.  And I would do it for complete strangers, not just my kids.

How can you call God all-loving and heavenly "father" when he isn't even as morally aware as any of us?

[wydileie]

Right, but you're looking at it from the criminal's side of things, not the victim's.

Of course I am, because we are talking about the fundamental changing of human behavior.

I suspect you'd get significant push back from not only all other posters here, but also the Bible itself on that assertion.  If every sinner/wrongdoer went to hell, Heaven would be empty.

Pretty sure everyone knows I was being hyperbolic. Obviously literally everyone doesn't go to hell.

Again, you're only looking at it from the naughty person's POV.  God doesn't have to banish every would-be rapist/murder/homosexual sodomite to hell.  Any of them can change their ways, ask for forgiveness and be saved. He just needs to protect, at the very least, innocent children because any being with any sense of morality would do it.  I would.  You know you would.  I bet ALL posters here would.  And I would do it for complete strangers, not just my kids.

How can you call God all-loving and heavenly "father" when he isn't even as morally aware as any of us?

Because God stopping anyone would fundamentally alter all human behavior and make us no longer have free will. This isn't even a question. This life is fleeting, and pointless in the scheme of things, so what happens here, even to children, is a single drop in an ocean. Even from a completely atheistic point of view, it's still the same mindset. Atheists always want to try to create morality out of a necessarily nihilistic position they hold because they long for meaning where there is none. What does even a lifetime of suffering matter to an infinitely vast expanse and eternity? It doesn't.

Also, your assertion that your morality is better than God's is a strong assertion. There are tradeoffs to all kinds of things. More freedom means less security, by necessity. As a self proclaimed libertarian, you should know that as well as anyone, and you supposedly promote freedom over security. We could stop 99% of all human trafficking of children, murders, drug trafficking, etc. with an ironfisted authoritarian government with big brother watching our every move. Are you going to promote that form of government to save the children? After all, it's the moral thing to do, by your own admission.

[P1tchblack]

^^^Yes you did and Correct. ^^^

Yes and based on the fact that you ignore explanations and don't even understand the most simple basics of the religion you are attacking and instead just keep posting the same thing, is proof you are trolling.

Buddy, there is no explanation that makes sense.  We know that God can, and has, intervened to aid those in need and stop/punish those doing evil.  See Passover and getting the Jews out of Egypt.

Any rule or roadblock that prevents God from coming to the rescue of a girl, in the situation above, is something that he has put in place, because he has the power to prevent it.

No one is denying that God put His own "rule" into place and that He could save said girl if He wanted to. You can't accept the fact that free will and an intervening God are incompatible with each other, and also that salvation, as designed, would be rendered moot by an intervening God. The knowledge that God exists with real tangible, measurable proof would drastically alter human behavior, and make us automatons, more or less.

Better late than never? 

Child Rescued From ‘Extreme†Abuse, Phoenix-Area Man, Woman Accused of Waterboarding Child, Lighting Her On Fire
.......................................

Reports show that doctors at Phoenix Childrenâ€s Hospital told police the child was extremely malnourished, had multiple cuts that were infected, and had multiple severe injuries, which included 12 broken bones. The victim required surgical intervention as part of the healing process, with the possibilities of permanent physical deformities.

The victim was able to describe to investigators details about the alleged abuse, which included being hit with multiple weapons, drowned, choked, waterboarded by Wimbish using a bucket, her nose was broken, she was lit on fire by pouring alcohol on her, burned with a metal straw, instructed to perform sexual acts, and forced to do drugs from a straw. The girl detailed that the abuse began when Wimbish had his ankle monitor removed and the abuse continued until she was removed from the home.

https://www.allaboutarizonanews.com/chil...r-on-fire/