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At least with respect to the point of who the vaccine is for, I am with scarlet. I got vaccinated to protect MYSELF. Everyone is responsible to take care of their own health. I don't begrudge anyone who chooses to go unvaccinated, they are making the best decision for their own situation. I have a 28 year old son who has chosen to not get vaccinated, for now. I would never dream to label his decision as "selfish." I do not feel unsafe at all being around him because, um, I'm vaccinated.
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(07-24-2021, 07:15 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: In an average year, there are about 7,000 documented deaths from seasonal flu.
If there were 500,000 deaths/year, I suspect people would be lining up for the seasonal flu vaccine  Stay away from numbers, pitch, or any kind of data. There are WAY more deaths from seasonal flu than what you stated.
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07-24-2021, 07:26 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2021, 07:26 AM by ScarletHayes.)
Ahhhh, so weâ€re cool with 7,000 or whatever.  Got it.  Â
I donâ€t believe everything Iâ€m told about Covid hook, line and sinker.  The numbers themselves are even questionable.Â
Thereâ€s a vaccine available for anyone that wants one.  Vaccines definitely work—-for the most part.  If you want one, by all means get one.  Â
I donâ€t know why every now and then I dive back into this topic, but thatâ€s on me.
(07-24-2021, 07:21 AM)Beastdog Wrote: (07-24-2021, 07:15 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: In an average year, there are about 7,000 documented deaths from seasonal flu.
If there were 500,000 deaths/year, I suspect people would be lining up for the seasonal flu vaccine Stay away from numbers, pitch, or any kind of data. There are WAY more deaths from seasonal flu than what you stated.
What I said was there are about 7k DOCUMENTED deaths.
Maybe you should get a little closer to English. My proximity to numbers probably isn't the issue.
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That is correct. Flu numbers are an estimate. COVID numbers are based on far harder data.Â
I have yet to hear any cogent or rational reason to not get vaccinated. I donâ€t expect to since none exist aside from already having had COVID.
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(07-24-2021, 07:10 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote: (07-24-2021, 01:54 AM)ChinaBuck Wrote: Pretty simple, I don't know why this is so hard to understand. The number 1 reason I got the vaccine was to protect my family. If you don't want to protect your family, I just don't know what to say.
That can be a false choice.  It might be the right thing for you, but it doesnâ€t apply for me.  The vulnerable in my family are vaccinated.  If thatâ€s not good enough then why even have a vaccine?
You can still bring it home to them even when they are vaccinated. Have you missed that part? It's been in the news for weeks. Some vaccinated folks are still catching and dying from this scourge. Please explain how this is a false choice.
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(07-23-2021, 08:59 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: (07-23-2021, 08:38 PM)ScarletHayes Wrote: The people that canâ€t get the vaccine should wear a mask in public then.  Werenâ€t we all told that masks work wonders?  Slap that mask on.  Dr Fauci likes em...  this week
Nope. We were told that masks protect others from you. That's why the CDC is recommending that unvaxed people wear a mask. Actually the "F" and CDC later indicated that wearing a facial covering also reduced the individuals risk of infection, If my memory serves they threw a 40% reduction number out there. Value of vaccinations, 10,000X, social distancing 100X, good HVAC system 50X, Facial Covering 10X. Wearing anything short of a N-95 in a car is a waste of time without leaving the windows down.
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(07-24-2021, 07:10 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote: (07-24-2021, 01:54 AM)ChinaBuck Wrote: Pretty simple, I don't know why this is so hard to understand. The number 1 reason I got the vaccine was to protect my family. If you don't want to protect your family, I just don't know what to say.
That can be a false choice.  It might be the right thing for you, but it doesnâ€t apply for me.  The vulnerable in my family are vaccinated.  If thatâ€s not good enough then why even have a vaccine? I mean if Iâ€m the only person in my town to get vaccinated youâ€re telling me my vaccine wonâ€t work?   Â
Iâ€m not going to allow a bunch of govt punks guilt me into anything.  The vaccines are out there for anyone that wants or needs them.  I donâ€t want it, and the math says I clearly donâ€t need it. Â
The flu kills seniors every year as well (miraculously not this year though   ).  We gonna start demanding 100% vaccine participation for that next?  Then whatâ€s the next thing around the corner?  Yeah Iâ€m simply not playing this game.  Unless forced of course, which clearly sounds like is just around the corner.  They just will not let go You may not die from Covid and you might be one of the lucky ones that barely have any symptoms or you could end up in the hospital or on the couch, wishing for death for two or three weeks, I witnessed it hundreds of times. I fully support your right to make that choice but it's not a binary Die/Survive question.Â
You have an 100% chance(virtually) of contracting Covid at some point the future unless something else kills you first. With the vaccine you have about a 50% chance of feeling crappy for 24-36 hours. With Covid, in your age range(guessing) you have about a 75% chance of symptomatic disease which generally lasts for a week to ten days. Death chance less than .5% unless you have some other conditions.
That's the math and it's a roll of the dice for us all.
(07-24-2021, 09:50 AM)Sanitarian2 Wrote: (07-23-2021, 08:59 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: (07-23-2021, 08:38 PM)ScarletHayes Wrote: The people that canâ€t get the vaccine should wear a mask in public then.  Werenâ€t we all told that masks work wonders?  Slap that mask on.  Dr Fauci likes em...  this week
Nope. We were told that masks protect others from you. That's why the CDC is recommending that unvaxed people wear a mask. Actually the "F" and CDC later indicated that wearing a facial covering also reduced the individuals risk of infection, If my memory serves they threw a 40% reduction number out there. Value of vaccinations, 10,000X, social distancing 100X, good HVAC system 50X, Facial Covering 10X. Wearing anything short of a N-95 in a car is a waste of time without leaving the windows down.  You may be right. I gave up trying to get any concrete info on masks.
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(07-24-2021, 08:39 AM)dunefan Wrote: You can still bring it home to them even when they are vaccinated. Have you missed that part? It's been in the news for weeks. Some vaccinated folks are still catching and dying from this scourge. Please explain how this is a false choice.
So then why bother with a vaccine? If anything that makes the case for the vaccine even weaker. Â
Look, vaccines work. I don't and won't dispute that. If ya want one get one. If ya don't you should not be forced into getting one.
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(07-24-2021, 10:42 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote: (07-24-2021, 08:39 AM)dunefan Wrote: You can still bring it home to them even when they are vaccinated. Have you missed that part? It's been in the news for weeks. Some vaccinated folks are still catching and dying from this scourge. Please explain how this is a false choice.
So then why bother with a vaccine? If anything that makes the case for the vaccine even weaker. Â
Look, vaccines work. I don't and won't dispute that. If ya want one get one. If ya don't you should not be forced into getting one. No one will be forced to get one. But there is no rational reason not to get one.
Given the documented dangers of Covid, the documented safeness of the vaccine and knowing that the Covid vaccine has been more effective than expected (95%), why wouldn't you get one?
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(07-24-2021, 07:30 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (07-24-2021, 07:21 AM)Beastdog Wrote: (07-24-2021, 07:15 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: In an average year, there are about 7,000 documented deaths from seasonal flu.
If there were 500,000 deaths/year, I suspect people would be lining up for the seasonal flu vaccine Stay away from numbers, pitch, or any kind of data. There are WAY more deaths from seasonal flu than what you stated.
What I said was there are about 7k DOCUMENTED deaths.
Maybe you should get a little closer to English. My proximity to numbers probably isn't the issue. Where does 7k come out of this data from the CDC? Do you know what "95% U I" means? I don't see any numbers there in 4 digits, for ANY year.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html
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(07-24-2021, 07:38 AM)3rdgensooner Wrote: That is correct. Flu numbers are an estimate. COVID numbers are based on far harder data.Â
I have yet to hear any cogent or rational reason to not get vaccinated. I donâ€t expect to since none exist aside from already having had COVID. Hey pitch, er I mean 3rdgen, the CDC does keep data for flu deaths. A big "BS" on their COVID numbers being any more accurate than their flu numbers.Â
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html
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(07-24-2021, 11:15 AM)3rdgensooner Wrote: No one will be forced to get one. But there is no rational reason not to get one.
I hope you're right, but I suspect a gradual boxing in over time where I will eventually be forced to. I can totally see it eventually becoming a condition for employment. etc... Â
As for the rationality, perhaps. I'm not overly concerned about the odds though. Folks just need to concern themselves with themselves and their families. The vaccine is available. It's there for people to make use of. I can't control what Bob down the street does. That's Bob's deal.
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