Matthew 7:21-23 confuses me

[K9Buck]

This verse seems to contradict other verses that claim that, if we believe in Jesus, that we will be saved.  Can any of my fellow Christian friends help me to better understand?  Thanks in advance.

[ChinaBuck]

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

This one is a little easier to read.

[ChinaBuck]

I think it speaks to charlatans who claim to have spoken for the Lord. And also for those with the holier-than-thou act. It's because neither type truly does not have a personal relationship with Jesus.

EDIT to add: The key is the last four words, "you who practice lawlessness." I think the point is that you cannot have a personal relationship with Christ if you have abandoned the purpose of the Word, i.e., the law as it were.

But then, I am not a person who can truly speak to the theological significance of the passage. I'm just another unknown human passing through life.

[K9Buck]

I think it speaks to charlatans who claim to have spoken for the Lord. And also for those with the holier-than-thou act. It's because neither type truly does not have a personal relationship with Jesus.

EDIT to add: The key is the last four words, "you who practice lawlessness." I think the point is that you cannot have a personal relationship with Christ if you have abandoned the purpose of the Word, i.e., the law as it were.

But then, I am not a person who can truly speak to the theological significance of the passage. I'm just another unknown human passing through life.

Thanks China.  That makes sense but it still is seemingly contradictory to the verses that say that one simply needs to believe in Christ to be saved.

[Hightop77]

I think it speaks to charlatans who claim to have spoken for the Lord. And also for those with the holier-than-thou act. It's because neither type truly does not have a personal relationship with Jesus.

Interesting ... .  I wonder if we know anyone here like that? 

[ScarletHayes]

My personal take on this is that it's pretty much what China referenced.  It's one thing to slip up (the human condition), but to be a blatant fraud?  Also there was the context of the times with the Pharasies being holier than though on the outside, etc...  It's funny because we've been having this discussion in church in recent sermons.  Another aspect of the times was that wealth was considered a sign of being right with God and vice versa.  I had never heard that discussed before.  

Long story short, you aint getting one over on the creator of the universe.  It's not happening.

[ChinaBuck]

I think it speaks to charlatans who claim to have spoken for the Lord. And also for those with the holier-than-thou act. It's because neither type truly does not have a personal relationship with Jesus.

EDIT to add: The key is the last four words, "you who practice lawlessness." I think the point is that you cannot have a personal relationship with Christ if you have abandoned the purpose of the Word, i.e., the law as it were.

But then, I am not a person who can truly speak to the theological significance of the passage. I'm just another unknown human passing through life.

Thanks China.  That makes sense but it still is seemingly contradictory to the verses that say that one simply needs to believe in Christ to be saved.

I donâ€t think itâ€s contradictory. There are those that profess faith outwardly but are not committed inwardly. And if you are not committed inwardly, you do not truly believe in Christ.

[Alabuckeye]

Weâ€ve seen people who preach and claim the name of Christ but are more interested in getting a new Gulfstream than following Christâ€s example.

Christâ€s work starts in the heart. “Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks” “if a man commits murder in his heart heâ€s a murderer” even without the true action being done.

Anyone can voice something. But displaying it with a life change that evidences the fruit of Gods work is telling factor.

[dunefan]

Weâ€ve seen people who preach and claim the name of Christ but are more interested in getting a new Gulfstream than following Christâ€s example.

Christâ€s work starts in the heart. “Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks”  “if a man commits murder in his heart heâ€s a murderer” even without the true action being done.

Anyone can voice something. But displaying it with a life change that evidences the fruit of Gods work is telling factor.

I guess, unfortunately for me, I can think of quite a few people I would pull the lever, throw the switch or push the plunger on if that would kill them.  I could care less if it was called murder.  kim jong-un, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Putin, every Arab terrorist and many more.  I would have gladly killed Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Stalin, Mao (and I'm still not even touching the total list) and many other monsters from the past if it would have precluded their maniacal destruction.  Somehow, I don't think God would hold these killings against me.  But they would all be considered murder.  And if God did hold these actions against me, then so be it.  Saving millions of lives, to me, is more important that hoping I get into a place no one even knows exits when I die.  Is self defense murder in God's eyes?  Is killing during war murder in God's eyes?  Is all killing murder in God's eyes?

[unc4corners]

Sad u sees

[K9Buck]

Weâ€ve seen people who preach and claim the name of Christ but are more interested in getting a new Gulfstream than following Christâ€s example.

Christâ€s work starts in the heart. “Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks”  “if a man commits murder in his heart heâ€s a murderer” even without the true action being done.

Anyone can voice something. But displaying it with a life change that evidences the fruit of Gods work is telling factor.

Luke 6:45

Great post!

[Alabuckeye]

Weâ€ve seen people who preach and claim the name of Christ but are more interested in getting a new Gulfstream than following Christâ€s example.

Christâ€s work starts in the heart. “Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks”  “if a man commits murder in his heart heâ€s a murderer” even without the true action being done.

Anyone can voice something. But displaying it with a life change that evidences the fruit of Gods work is telling factor.

I guess, unfortunately for me, I can think of quite a few people I would pull the lever, throw the switch or push the plunger on if that would kill them.  I could care less if it was called murder.  kim jong-un, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Putin, every Arab terrorist and many more.  I would have gladly killed Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Stalin, Mao (and I'm still not even touching the total list) and many other monsters from the past if it would have precluded their maniacal destruction.  Somehow, I don't think God would hold these killings against me.  But they would all be considered murder.  And if God did hold these actions against me, then so be it.  Saving millions of lives, to me, is more important that hoping I get into a place no one even knows exits when I die.  Is self defense murder in God's eyes?  Is killing during war murder in God's eyes?  Is all killing murder in God's eyes?

Jehovah, God, is a God of Justice. Every evil deed, every unjust deed will be dealt with. There is nothing wrong with wanting justice. 

to your last question, no. From the first 5 books of the Bible, where God is setting up His covenant with Israel, it is very clear that there are distinctions

[K9Buck]

Weâ€ve seen people who preach and claim the name of Christ but are more interested in getting a new Gulfstream than following Christâ€s example.

Christâ€s work starts in the heart. “Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks”  “if a man commits murder in his heart heâ€s a murderer” even without the true action being done.

Anyone can voice something. But displaying it with a life change that evidences the fruit of Gods work is telling factor.

I guess, unfortunately for me, I can think of quite a few people I would pull the lever, throw the switch or push the plunger on if that would kill them.  I could care less if it was called murder.  kim jong-un, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Putin, every Arab terrorist and many more.  I would have gladly killed Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Stalin, Mao (and I'm still not even touching the total list) and many other monsters from the past if it would have precluded their maniacal destruction.  Somehow, I don't think God would hold these killings against me.  But they would all be considered murder.  And if God did hold these actions against me, then so be it.  Saving millions of lives, to me, is more important that hoping I get into a place no one even knows exits when I die.  Is self defense murder in God's eyes?  Is killing during war murder in God's eyes?  Is all killing murder in God's eyes?

Jehovah, God, is a God of Justice. Every evil deed, every unjust deed will be dealt with. There is nothing wrong with wanting justice. 

I believe that you are correct.  The question is, is it "just" to send a soul to an ETERNITY of suffering in Hell for living a sinful life?  I don't believe so.  

We are all sinners but there are repentant sinners and unrepentant sinners.  I believe that truly repentant sinners can and will be excused by Christ in the hereafter.  People who die unrepentant when they die will, I believe, receive justice on a slow path to redemption.  

For instance, look at Proverbs 22:16

â—„ Proverbs 22:16 â–º
Verse (Click for Chapter)
King James Bible
He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want.


My interpretation of this verse is that the rich will pay for their greed and selfishness in the hereafter. While repentant Christians are enjoying the fruits of Heaven, those that were unrepentant, rich, and greedy will be paying for their iniquities as they slowly work their way to redemption.

Most Christians seem to have the belief that, upon death, all those who avoid Hell are suddenly sitting with Jesus and Mother Teresa at the same table enjoying wine and cheese. I don't believe that it works like that, as evidenced by this verse from Proverbs.

[Alabuckeye]

God doesnâ€t “send” anyone to Hell per se, “God is not willing that any perish, but that ALL come to eternal life”.......people choose to reject God. Choose separation.

[K9Buck]

God doesnâ€t “send” anyone to Hell per se,  “God is not willing that any perish, but that ALL come to eternal life”.......people choose to reject God. Choose separation.

Do you believe that souls that do NOT end up in Hell are, so to speak, good to go?  Or do you believe that learning and spiritual growth continues in the hereafter?