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NRA came through for this kid! (Nerf gun)
#13
(12-14-2020, 01:42 PM)wydileie Wrote:
(12-14-2020, 11:56 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(12-14-2020, 11:52 AM)wydileie Wrote:
(12-14-2020, 11:10 AM)Conanthelibrarian Wrote: Has there been a loss of gun rights in America?  Honest question wydileie.
The NRA tacitly supported the bump stock ban, and have been virtually silent on the recent ATF raid of Polymer80 and the Biden team involvement with the ATF, which includes their desire to end support for 80% lowers, and AR-15 pistol braces. The organization officially supports the National Firearms Act. They also give little support or action into providing resources to fight for common sense gun law changes like legalizing silencers/suppressors.

Bump stocks are not firearms and were a device designed to overcome the regulation of full auto firearms.  Like I said, you are attacking the people who have done more to keep the Second Amendment than any other organization.  Attacking the NRA is not a sane solution to protecting gun rights.
The GOA (Gunowners of America) are a much better organization for gun lobbying.

GOA might align more with your personal views but in no way are they a better gun rights lobby than the NRA.  Most people have never heard of them and in no way do they have the money and influence to protect gun rights.  Getting rid of or reducing the influence of the NRA has been a Leftist goal for decades and it sounds like many foolish gun rights supporters are going to assist them in that goal.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


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#14
(12-14-2020, 01:48 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: GOA might align more with your personal views but in no way are they a better gun rights lobby than the NRA.  Most people have never heard of them and in no way do they have the money and influence to protect gun rights.  Getting rid of or reducing the influence of the NRA has been a Leftist goal for decades and it sounds like many foolish gun rights supporters are going to assist them in that goal.
As we should. Why should gun owners support a group that doesn't support gun rights? You have a very skewed view of things in that you think things deserve to exist simply because they have more money, currently (e.g. Republicans should get all libertarian votes, gun owners should support the NRA instead of GOA). You try to shutdown discourse on a subject, because you want to maintain the status quo of loud voices, even if those voices are not in the best interest of the people they supposedly represent. 

Also, the Gun Owners of America are a well known group in political circles. They have political power and they fund many lawsuits on behalf of gun owners. You seem to be generally ignorant on the subject, to be honest.
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#15
(12-14-2020, 01:55 PM)wydileie Wrote:
(12-14-2020, 01:48 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: GOA might align more with your personal views but in no way are they a better gun rights lobby than the NRA.  Most people have never heard of them and in no way do they have the money and influence to protect gun rights.  Getting rid of or reducing the influence of the NRA has been a Leftist goal for decades and it sounds like many foolish gun rights supporters are going to assist them in that goal.
As we should. Why should gun owners support a group that doesn't support gun rights? You have a very skewed view of things in that you think things deserve to exist simply because they have more money, currently (e.g. Republicans should get all libertarian votes, gun owners should support the NRA instead of GOA). You try to shutdown discourse on a subject, because you want to maintain the status quo of loud voices, even if those voices are not in the best interest of the people they supposedly represent. 

Also, the Gun Owners of America are a well known group in political circles. They have political power and they fund many lawsuits on behalf of gun owners. You seem to be generally ignorant on the subject, to be honest.

Another useful idiot just like other "libertarians".
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


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#16
(12-14-2020, 02:02 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: Another useful idiot just like other "libertarians".
I give you several examples of the NRA failing gun owners, and supporting gun control, and you shrug it off saying gun owners should just suck it up, and I'm the idiot? Seems like you are too busy sucking on the teat of big government and overpaid lobbysists to think logically, my friend.
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#17
(12-14-2020, 02:04 PM)wydileie Wrote:
(12-14-2020, 02:02 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: Another useful idiot just like other "libertarians".
I give you several examples of the NRA failing gun owners, and supporting gun control, and you shrug it off saying gun owners should just suck it up, and I'm the idiot? Seems like you are too busy sucking on the teat of big government and overpaid lobbysists to think logically, my friend.

No.  You operate like a textbook Leftist with reasoning that says the NRA doesn't support what I support 100% so therefore it must be eliminated.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


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#18
(12-14-2020, 02:16 PM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(12-14-2020, 02:04 PM)wydileie Wrote:
(12-14-2020, 02:02 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: Another useful idiot just like other "libertarians".
I give you several examples of the NRA failing gun owners, and supporting gun control, and you shrug it off saying gun owners should just suck it up, and I'm the idiot? Seems like you are too busy sucking on the teat of big government and overpaid lobbysists to think logically, my friend.

No.  You operate like a textbook Leftist with reasoning that says the NRA doesn't support what I support 100% so therefore it must be eliminated.
I never said it should be eliminated. I AM A LIFETIME MEMBER OF THE NRA. I don't spend $1500 on things I don't find useful. I have a lot more skin in the game then you do, I'm sure. I simply said they are not a great organization for gun rights lobbying, which I backed up with factual examples. They actively support gun control measures which is the opposite of gun rights, in case you weren't aware. They certainly do some good in trying to stave off some of the real severe laws, like another assault weapons ban, or gun registration, and I'm glad they put effort towards that. However, they have failed gun owners in places an organization like the GOA doesn't. Hence, people giving to the lobbying arm of the NRA should redirect their funds to the GOA, or another real gun rights organization, which the NRA-ILA is not.
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#19
(12-14-2020, 02:22 PM)wydileie Wrote:
(12-14-2020, 02:16 PM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(12-14-2020, 02:04 PM)wydileie Wrote:
(12-14-2020, 02:02 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: Another useful idiot just like other "libertarians".
I give you several examples of the NRA failing gun owners, and supporting gun control, and you shrug it off saying gun owners should just suck it up, and I'm the idiot? Seems like you are too busy sucking on the teat of big government and overpaid lobbysists to think logically, my friend.

No.  You operate like a textbook Leftist with reasoning that says the NRA doesn't support what I support 100% so therefore it must be eliminated.
I never said it should be eliminated. I AM A LIFETIME MEMBER OF THE NRA. I don't spend $1500 on things I don't find useful. I have a lot more skin in the game then you do, I'm sure. I simply said they are not a great organization for gun rights lobbying, which I backed up with factual examples. They actively support gun control measures which is the opposite of gun rights, in case you weren't aware. They certainly do some good in trying to stave off some of the real severe laws, like another assault weapons ban, or gun registration, and I'm glad they put effort towards that. However, they have failed gun owners in places an organization like the GOA doesn't. Hence, people giving to the lobbying arm of the NRA should redirect their funds to the GOA, or another real gun rights organization, which the NRA-ILA is not.

Right now, they are the ONLY gun rights lobby organization with any sort of influence over lawmakers.  The fact you don't actually understand that makes it hard to take you seriously.  There are lot of wannabe groups out there today but none are influential.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


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#20
(12-14-2020, 02:26 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: Right now, they are the ONLY gun rights lobby organization with any sort of influence over lawmakers.  The fact you don't actually understand that makes it hard to take you seriously.  There are lot of wannabe groups out there today but none are influential.
This is where you are incorrect. The GOA is a well known organization with a strong lobbying group. Go to any gun owners forum and they will know who the GOA are and promote them over the NRA, 100% guaranteed. The media focuses on the NRA, sure, but politicians certainly know who the GOA are, and they spend a lot of money lobbying. Here is a money comparison of GOA and NRA-ILA (the lobbying arm of the NRA).

NRA-ILA:
https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobb...D000000082

GOA:
https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobb...cycle=2019&id=D000026353

Are we done here?
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#21
(12-14-2020, 02:47 PM)wydileie Wrote:
(12-14-2020, 02:26 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: Right now, they are the ONLY gun rights lobby organization with any sort of influence over lawmakers.  The fact you don't actually understand that makes it hard to take you seriously.  There are lot of wannabe groups out there today but none are influential.
This is where you are incorrect. The GOA is a well known organization with a strong lobbying group. Go to any gun owners forum and they will know who the GOA are and promote them over the NRA, 100% guaranteed. The media focuses on the NRA, sure, but politicians certainly know who the GOA are, and they spend a lot of money lobbying. Here is a money comparison of GOA and NRA-ILA (the lobbying arm of the NRA).

NRA-ILA:
https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobb...D000000082

GOA:
https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobb...cycle=2019&id=D000026353

Are we done here?

Tells you nothing of substance.  The NRA normally spends about twice that much but thanks to attacks from the NY AG plus decreases in fund raising did not in 2020.  How many people attend the GOA national convention?  Do they even have one?  Did President Trump speak there?
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


Reply
#22
(12-14-2020, 03:02 PM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(12-14-2020, 02:47 PM)wydileie Wrote:
(12-14-2020, 02:26 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: Right now, they are the ONLY gun rights lobby organization with any sort of influence over lawmakers.  The fact you don't actually understand that makes it hard to take you seriously.  There are lot of wannabe groups out there today but none are influential.
This is where you are incorrect. The GOA is a well known organization with a strong lobbying group. Go to any gun owners forum and they will know who the GOA are and promote them over the NRA, 100% guaranteed. The media focuses on the NRA, sure, but politicians certainly know who the GOA are, and they spend a lot of money lobbying. Here is a money comparison of GOA and NRA-ILA (the lobbying arm of the NRA).

NRA-ILA:
https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobb...D000000082

GOA:
https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobb...cycle=2019&id=D000026353

Are we done here?

Tells you nothing of substance.  The NRA normally spends about twice that much but thanks to attacks from the NY AG plus decreases in fund raising did not in 2020.  How many people attend the GOA national convention?  Do they even have one?  Did President Trump speak there?
Again, I'm not talking about the NRA as a whole. I like the NRA. We are talking about the lobbying arms and the parts related to pushing for policy changes, specifically. Yes, the NRA still has more money than the GOA in that regard, generally speaking, but the GOA is no slouch, either. They both put substantial money towards their causes, and the GOA is actually fighting for all gun rights, and the NRA-ILA is not.

Are you an NRA lobbyist? I don't understand your fierce devotion to their lobbying efforts. Perhaps you support their backing of certain gun control measures, and that's, like, your opinion, man, and that's cool. But don't come on here acting like my stances and my support of a group that actually stands for gun rights is somehow wrong, because I don't want to support an organization trying to take my rights away.
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