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WELCOME new member AMaizawing (April 03, 2020)


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Why do Libertarians keep running?
#1
As I view it they are “Constitutionalist” and as such align more with the Republican Party.  By running they invariably get a liberal Democrat elected.  Why wouldnâ€t they try to join the Republican Party and try to influence the platforms much like Bernie Sanders Liberals did with the Democratic Party.  They just might get something but this way itâ€s only luck that they get something.
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#2
(11-28-2020, 07:22 PM)Longtoothbuck Wrote: As I view it they are “Constitutionalist” and as such align more with the Republican Party.  By running they invariably get a liberal Democrat elected.  Why wouldnâ€t they try to join the Republican Party and try to influence the platforms much like Bernie Sanders Liberals did with the Democratic Party.  They just might get something but this way itâ€s only luck that they get something.
[Image: emoji848.png]...hmmmm...good question.
Make America Honest Again
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#3
The Libertarian Party has gobs of issues, but as for whom they are taking votes from???  Traditionally itâ€s been the GOP, but when Jeff Spicoli ran with Bill Weld I think they took away more votes from Ma than they did Trump.  My hunch anyway.  I mean I have railed on and on about 2016 being probably the biggest lost opportunity for a 3rd party, at least in my lifetime.  They really could have become relevant and began to win seats down ballot, but...  well... we know what happened.  Bill Weld was the political equivalent of a turd in a punch bowl
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#4
To be frank, the Republican Party is a party of corporatist shills, and a shell of its former self. It used to be more Libertarian minded when it was run (or at least influenced) by true Conservatives like Milton Friedman. Reagan was probably the last even remotely conservative Republican nominee, and even he was quite active in stirring up trouble overseas, which led to the rise of Ross Perot and Co. It is not a party of conservatives, anymore. Trump is so far from conservative, itâ€s crazy heâ€s even considered a Republican. He was (and is) a Clinton Democrat, which makes it ironic he beat Hilary with her husbandâ€s platform.

We shouldnâ€t support a troubled and failing party, just because they happen to have more money than the party you most closely support. This is a Republic, we should be represented by those whose primary interest is representing us, and that is not the GOP (or the Democrats). Both are puppets for corporate interests that do not represent their constituency. The only reason Republicans even maintain any sort of power is because they have catered to the evangelical block with things like SCOTUS nominations. Iâ€m all for Conservative/originalist justices, but we have a sad state of affairs where evangelicals have tied their interests to a terrible man like Trump, which makes them look hypocritical, at the very least.

No good comes from a two party system. This goes all the way back to the founding of our country where Adams and Jefferson held a fierce hatred for each other. Itâ€s time we take a step back from the ledge as a country and stop tribalizing ourselves so much. We are more than an R or D next to our name. We have a Republican Party that has both a Paul and Collins in it, who hold drastically different worldviews. On the Democratic side we have Harry Reid and Bernie Sanders in it, hold drastically different worldviews. How does this system make sense? Reid and Collins could switch bodies and no one would even know the difference.
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#5
When the Libertarian Party gets serious they will attract a LOT more voters.  When they run serious candidates, when they recognize borders, that legalizing meth and heroin probably isn't a good idea, and that the right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness just isn't an empty slogan...  yeah, they would gain more support.  A LOT more support.  

There is a vast pool of people that have just had it with these 2 parties, and the LP just refuses to match that frustration by getting serious and trying to win.  I'll give a small example from this election.  I was asked by the Trump campaign and GOP early and often for money.  I ended up giving on 3 separate occasions.  Then, FINALLY, the LP party sends me something BARELY a WEEK before the elections.  They were running a campaign to win some state legislature seats out west, and I think maybe a federal house seat.  If you're serious about raising money and winning, you send me that in September, you don't get it to me barely over a week before the elections.  etc, etc, etc...
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#6
The Libertarian Party is beholden to an ideology. Like the Communist Party. It's Utopian and if implemented significantly would fail. So Scarlet those things stay in the platform. And they continue to be a clown show for the most part. The GOP or whatever you would want to call a conservative party in the US would do well to lean toward a lot of things Libertarians believe and incorporate some ideas but the ideology as a whole is as unworkable as any other ideology. Everything we believe is actually tempered to a degree. We , except for a few lefty morons, believe in capitalism as a for instance. But we don't have lassez faire capitalism. Why not? Because it would be too much and far too volatile. You might end up with one trillionaire and everyone else barely surviving. Same thing with all political ideologies. That's why the party system includes people with differing views but just generally on the same side of the fence. Conservative and liberal to varying degrees and varying by issue as well.
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#7
(11-28-2020, 07:22 PM)Longtoothbuck Wrote: As I view it they are “Constitutionalist” and as such align more with the Republican Party.  By running they invariably get a liberal Democrat elected.  Why wouldnâ€t they try to join the Republican Party and try to influence the platforms much like Bernie Sanders Liberals did with the Democratic Party.  They just might get something but this way itâ€s only luck that they get something.

Libertarians encompass the best parts of both parties.....well.... if either party actually stood for what they claim to believe in and maybe USED to believe in.

A non-comprehensive list....

Where Libertarians and Democrats agree:
  • Personal freedom
  • not policing the world via military
  • tolerance of individual choices
  • separating church and state
Where Libertarians and Republicans agree:
  • Free market 
  • Property rights
  • 2nd Amendment
  • Robust military
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#8
Open borders and SJW crap would be another category by which the libertarians and the androgynous White left are in total harmony.
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#9
while it's touted as this 'middle of the road, attractive to both sides' ideology, I've never seen a Democrat/liberal move to the libertarian tag. I've seen a ton of Republicans.

No longer GroupThink 'woke'.  but it was fun while it lasted.
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#10
(12-01-2020, 10:34 AM)Alabuckeye Wrote: while it's touted as this 'middle of the road, attractive to both sides' ideology, I've never seen a Democrat/liberal move to the libertarian tag.  I've seen a ton of Republicans.

The general assumption is that 3rd party candidates generally syphon mostly from Democrats.  It's not the case, but that's generally the assumption.
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#11
(12-01-2020, 10:29 AM)Blinky Wrote: Open borders and SJW crap would be another category by which the libertarians and the androgynous White left are in total harmony.
This simply isn't true. Open borders is only supported when there is no welfare state. In our current situation, few libertarians would support open borders. Yes, it is part of the platform, but you have to take that in conjunction with getting rid of the welfare state. It isn't a standalone plank. Also, "open borders" is a little bit of a misnomer. Most just want a robust visa system that will give visas to anyone who applies as long as they can get a job. The whole point is to make sure the US always has the supply of workers it needs to stimulate maximum growth. The US was at full employment for nearly two full years under Trump. Full employment means we are not maximizing economic growth. Trump, weirdly, was trying to shrink LEGAL IMMIGRATION during this time. And yes, I know H1B visas have issues, but when you have full employment, you should be trying to increase immigration, not decrease it.

As for the SJW stuff, maybe a few, but that isn't the overwhelming majority of libertarians. Most libertarians still consider themselves conservative or classical liberal, and believe strongly in the rights to free speech and expression and despise things like "safe spaces" and shutting down public speakers of any political bent. There's a difference between allowing people the freedom to do and say what they want and actively supporting it. The left will self destruct, it is only a matter of time. If you don't give them the freedom to do so, it will fester. All this SJW stuff out in the open will generate pushback from future generations, just like the pendulum has always swung back and forth between conservative and liberal.
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#12
(12-01-2020, 10:40 AM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(12-01-2020, 10:34 AM)Alabuckeye Wrote: while it's touted as this 'middle of the road, attractive to both sides' ideology, I've never seen a Democrat/liberal move to the libertarian tag.  I've seen a ton of Republicans.

The general assumption is that 3rd party candidates generally syphon mostly from Democrats.  It's not the case, but that's generally the assumption.
Whose assumptions are those?

Ross Perot....who'd he steal voters from in 1992 and 1996?  Sure wasn't Slick....

Gary Johnson in 2012/2016?  Sure wasn't BO and Hills.....

How bout Jo in 2020?  You think she siphoned off Joe Biden supporters?

No longer GroupThink 'woke'.  but it was fun while it lasted.
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