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I taught history for year, majored in it in college, never once did I learn or recite that the Facists of Europe were akin to the conservatives on the right in the US.  Not once. Liberals today and Google may be presenting that but I've never taught it or heard of it taught that way in this part of Ohio.
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(11-23-2020, 09:10 PM)ChinaBuck Wrote: (11-23-2020, 09:00 PM)zigbee Wrote: (11-23-2020, 08:42 PM)3rdgensooner Wrote: (11-23-2020, 08:26 PM)zigbee Wrote: (11-23-2020, 04:15 PM)K9Buck Wrote: Megyn supported all of that leftist trash and now she's surprised and outraged by what they're doing. Lol. She may be intelligent, but she's unwise. Plenty of liberals are going to learn this as it gets worse in liberal states. No they won't. They'll just think they didn't liberal hard enough and keep making it worse. Liberals do not learn. Then why did this hard leftist Kelley switch over and see the light? It shows that there are liberals who figure it out. Let's be real, she is not a hard leftist in the vein of Warren or AOC. 3GS has a real point, hard core liberals always think they didn't liberal enough. They cannot conceive of an alternative view is acceptable in the least.Â
There's a spectrum of liberals just like there is a spectrum of conservatives. The difference is that the liberals have moved far more to the left than conservatives have moved to the right. In fact, one can easily argue that conservatives in general (not all) have moved leftward as well. I would agree with this, and really that is my point.  You have to be a hard core radical to give up money in taxes, property, rights to continue to support violence and subjugation.
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(11-23-2020, 09:12 PM)zigbee Wrote: I taught history for year, majored in it in college, never once did I learn or recite that the Facists of Europe were akin to the conservatives on the right in the US.  Not once. Liberals today and Google may be presenting that but I've never taught it or heard of it taught that way in this part of Ohio.
Most people just parrot what they've heard and claim that it's "far-right". Â
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(11-23-2020, 09:32 PM)K9Buck Wrote: (11-23-2020, 09:12 PM)zigbee Wrote: I taught history for year, majored in it in college, never once did I learn or recite that the Facists of Europe were akin to the conservatives on the right in the US.  Not once. Liberals today and Google may be presenting that but I've never taught it or heard of it taught that way in this part of Ohio.
Most people just parrot what they've heard and claim that it's "far-right". Â
Would agree with this as well.  If you google all this we know what comes up.
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To me, the spectrum is like this. Total government control (think North Korea) is the furthest point on the left of the spectrum Zero or little government control is the furthest to the right on the spectrum.
Most European nations are to the left of the U.S. but are NOT what I would consider "far-left". That designation certainly applies to North Korea and places like China, Cuba, Venezuela, and others.
I think it can be argued that our nation's founders were "far-right" in that they supported free speech, free markets, the right to own and carry guns, limited taxation and limited government control. Of course, the one BIG exception was that a number of them owned and/or supported slavery. So, yea, that's a monolithic contradiction in principles. But aside from slavery, their views on economics and governance would be considered "far right" in today's America.
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(11-23-2020, 09:37 PM)zigbee Wrote: (11-23-2020, 09:32 PM)K9Buck Wrote: (11-23-2020, 09:12 PM)zigbee Wrote: I taught history for year, majored in it in college, never once did I learn or recite that the Facists of Europe were akin to the conservatives on the right in the US.  Not once. Liberals today and Google may be presenting that but I've never taught it or heard of it taught that way in this part of Ohio.
Most people just parrot what they've heard and claim that it's "far-right". Â
Would agree with this as well.  If you google all this we know what comes up.
Yes, if you Google the definition of fascism, you'll find many that don't assign it to the left or the right, but you'll find a fair number that ascribes it to the "far-right". It's rare to find anyone that says it's "far-left". Of course, anytime I discuss the topic and explain in my own words as to how fascism is a left-wing ideology, they'll often quote one of those sources that says it's "right-wing" and then that's the end of the discussion. Much of the left loves fascist ideology, as long as it's not called fascism.
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(11-23-2020, 09:42 PM)K9Buck Wrote: To me, the spectrum is like this. Total government control (think North Korea) is the furthest point on the left of the spectrum Zero or little government control is the furthest to the right on the spectrum.Â
Most European nations are to the left of the U.S. but are NOT what I would consider "far-left". That designation certainly applies to North Korea and places like China, Cuba, Venezuela, and others.Â
I think it can be argued that our nation's founders were "far-right" in that they supported free speech, free markets, the right to own and carry guns, limited taxation and limited government control. Of course, the one BIG exception was that a number of them owned and/or supported slavery. So, yea, that's a monolithic contradiction in principles. But aside from slavery, their views on economics and governance would be considered "far right" in today's America. What was once far right has changed if you go back to the founders. Some of them owned slaves like G Washington and they certainly didn't support women's right to vote. Times change, people change, definitions and ways and words of defining things change.  The radical left supports anything to maintain power. Illegals coming in? They'd oppose it if this meant losing power.  High taxes? they'd oppose it if it mean losing power. Paying off student loans or packing the court, etc. It all DEPENDS on how they can maintain power.
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(11-23-2020, 07:13 PM)Beastdog Wrote: (11-23-2020, 04:11 PM)3rdgensooner Wrote: (11-23-2020, 03:56 PM)Soupcity Kid Wrote: (11-22-2020, 01:48 PM)zigbee Wrote: The real impact and changes to lives are in those liberal states like Oregon and California and you see people leaving as result.  Our conservative state of Ohio is pretty much same...as is NC where I'm moving next year.  Not denying all the attempts and so forth to make this nation a liberal NAZI world at all. I just have faith in the masses who are voting in herds for conservatives. This is positive. Here is some irony and a concern at the same the regarding the Senate elections in Ga.
The Pubs including the never Trumpers are now calling on and counting on Trump supporters to come vote in Ga! People like Bill Kristol and the Lincoln ProjectÂ
SO they helped bury Trump but want to keep pub control of Senate??
If I lived in Ga I do not know if I would vote. I mean I do not want dems to have the Senate but those people helped bury Trump and deserve what they get too. That's certainly a cut off your nose to spite your face viewpoint. I was just going to post those exact same words lol. Come on soup its, get real jack! Beast and thirdgen, again if I lived there I would consider it. So if they elect pubs then the same old same old happens. 2 years of the left and the media convincing people it is McConnel that are obstructionist etc. Maybe just maybe like when Obama and the dems had all 3 houses we can let it implode and bring on a real red wave. Yes I know the damage that can be done in 2 years but this is the only way the pubs can unite. Where the Lincoln Project wants to take us is Bush and Obama was Bush lite.
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My understanding is that the political spectrum needs both x and y axes. The x axis is economic right and left. The y axis would have an extreme top fascism and anarchy has an extreme bottom. Granted I only had 4 political science classes and have never taught Government, but this is my understanding.
For example. Communism is far left economic x axis. Stalin is extreme authoritarian....so he would graph to top left corner of the graph.
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(11-23-2020, 10:13 PM)Georgem80 Wrote: My understanding is that the political spectrum needs both x and y axes. The x axis is economic right and left. The y axis would have an extreme top fascism and anarchy has an extreme bottom. Granted I only had 4 political science classes and have never taught Government, but this is my understanding.
For example. Communism is far left economic x axis. Stalin is extreme authoritarian....so he would graph to top left corner of the graph.Â
Ask ten people to define fascism and you'll probably get ten answers. LOL. Â
One author ( Llewellyn H. Rockwell Jr.) that I would describe as an ardent libertarian, gave what I consider to be a good summary of what is fascism. Here is what he wrote: Â
[color=rgba(20, 20, 20, 0.65)] Fascism has become a term of general derision and rebuke. It is tossed casually in the direction of anything a critic happens to dislike.
[/color]
[color=rgba(20, 20, 20, 0.65)] But fascism is a real political and economic concept, not a stick with which to beat opponents arbitrarily. The abuse of this important word undermines its true value as a term referring to a very real phenomenon, and one whose spirit lives on even now.[/color]
[color=rgba(20, 20, 20, 0.65)] Fascism is a specific ideology based on the idea that the state is the ideal organization for realizing a society's and an individual's potential economically, socially, and even spiritually.[/color]
[color=rgba(20, 20, 20, 0.65)] The state, for the fascist, is the instrument by which the people's common destiny is realized, and in which the potential for greatness is to be found. Individual rights, and the individual himself, are strictly subordinate to the state's great and glorious goals for the nation. [/color]
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