Let's talk about being "born again"

[K9Buck]

Weâ€ve all heard Christians who proclaim themselves to be “born again”.  However, as the great preacher John MacArthur said, one cannot make themselves be “born again”.  What did you do to cause yourself to be born?  Thatâ€s right – nothing.  Jesus used the words “born again” on purpose.  What he was saying is that, there is NOTHING that you can do to make yourself “born again”.  Only God can cause you to be born into the spirit or “born again”.  Remember that, Jesus and his disciples preached to us to “repent” and to follow Jesus†teachings to “love thy neighbor” and to be forgiving and, most of all, to recognize that he is the son of God.  They never said anything about being “born again”.  Why?  Because you cannot cause yourself to be born into the spirit or be “born again”. 

[ChinaBuck]

Where I went to church we did not use the term "born again". You were either on the path toward Christ or you have strayed. But those who strayed could come back to the path.

[K9Buck]

We can all get on the path and, I believe, eventually, EVERYONE gets on it, albeit not necessarily in this lifetime.

[Alabuckeye]

I'd love to see the full context of that John McArthur quote.....

Jesus said in John chapter 3 to Nicodemus that he 'must be born again'......Jesus originated that language. So, with that said, I'd say it's pretty important.

Big picture. The story of the Bible is creation, man rebelling against God, God providing a path of redemption, and man being at a crossroads of either accepting God's extended grace/mercy thru faith or denying it.

K9, I love ya even though you trolled me on the Michigan board, but there is absolutely nothing in the Bible about a post-death point of decision where everyone is welcomed in. That belief is a 'universalist' view, which is roundly rejected as heresy.

[Conanthelibrarian]

MacAuthur is more of a Calvinist I believe, where you don't "choose" to be saved, God chooses to save you. Not to get too theological, but then at that point you are born again, given a new spirit, and then begin your christian walk. Thats the very simplified version, but basically it.

Alabuck, from what I can remember, is more Wesleyan where God freely offers it to all and some accept and some reject. Those that accept become "born again" and begin their christian walk.

regardless of whose theology is right, I believe they are both christians.

BUt I also agree with Ala. There is no post death conversions. There is no proof or reason to believe it other than making us feel better. And if there was, what is the point of worrying now? Go live like 3rd Gen and deal with it later.

[3rdgensooner]

MacAuthur is more of a Calvinist I believe, where you don't "choose" to be saved, God chooses to save you.  Not to get too theological, but then at that point you are born again, given a new spirit, and then begin your christian walk.  Thats the very simplified version, but basically it.

Alabuck, from what I can remember, is more Wesleyan where God freely offers it to all and some accept and some reject.  Those that accept become "born again" and begin their christian walk.

regardless of whose theology is right, I believe they are both christians. 

BUt I also agree with Ala.  There is no post death conversions.  There is no proof or reason to believe it other than making us feel better.  And if there was, what is the point of worrying now?  Go live like 3rd Gen and deal with it later.

[Alabuckeye]

MacAuthur is more of a Calvinist I believe, where you don't "choose" to be saved, God chooses to save you.  Not to get too theological, but then at that point you are born again, given a new spirit, and then begin your christian walk.  Thats the very simplified version, but basically it.

Alabuck, from what I can remember, is more Wesleyan where God freely offers it to all and some accept and some reject.  Those that accept become "born again" and begin their christian walk.

regardless of whose theology is right, I believe they are both christians. 

BUt I also agree with Ala.  There is no post death conversions.  There is no proof or reason to believe it other than making us feel better.  And if there was, what is the point of worrying now?  Go live like 3rd Gen and deal with it later.

you are right in McArthur's background, and that is likely the explanation.
Even with the difference in theological tree  Calvin v. Wesley, only the far extremes of the groups would disagree to a point of not being able to find common Biblical footing.  Even with free will, I can't deny the absolute role that God's mercy and grace plays in the transaction of salvation.  It isn't my doing, it's His doing.  It is my faith placed in that mercy and grace and resting in it that completes the connection, but there is nothing that I can do to save myself.

[K9Buck]

I'd love to see the full context of that John McArthur quote.....

Jesus said in John chapter 3 to Nicodemus that he 'must be born again'......Jesus originated that language.  So, with that said, I'd say it's pretty important.

Big picture.  The story of the Bible is creation, man rebelling against God, God providing a path of redemption, and man being at a crossroads of either accepting God's extended grace/mercy thru faith or denying it.

K9, I love ya even though you trolled me on the Michigan board, but there is absolutely nothing in the Bible about a post-death point of decision where everyone is welcomed in.  That belief is a 'universalist' view, which is roundly rejected as heresy.

I'm not preaching "heresy".  I'm simply giving a guess as to what happens to people that don't find Jesus in this lifetime.  The fact of that matter is that none of us KNOW what happens.  

Neither Jesus nor his disciples EVER told people to go become "born again" and that's because, according to MacArthur, we have as much to do with being born into the spirit as we did with being born into the flesh - nothing.  

You may not recall, but I was raised Catholic but have recently concluded that the Church is on the wrong path.  I really enjoy listening to MacArthur, who is a Baptist.  Aren't you a Baptist?  

Anyway, here is the sermon by MacArthur about being "born again". &t=4s&fbclid=IwAR3E9p_dXek2MVSdb-bexv1LFCZN1DNNaibvbHlTpu7nYy2naVu7SVmj-Dk

I'm going to troll you some more when you post on that UM forum!  

[Alabuckeye]

Read John 3. Jesus DID speak of being born again.

And I've gotta go find that. I was going to reply immediately, but didn't because it hasn't been long since my ID there has been unbanned and able to post, and what I was going to reply probably would get me banned again because I have buckeye in my name.

[K9Buck]

MacAuthur is more of a Calvinist I believe, where you don't "choose" to be saved, God chooses to save you.  Not to get too theological, but then at that point you are born again, given a new spirit, and then begin your christian walk.  Thats the very simplified version, but basically it.

Alabuck, from what I can remember, is more Wesleyan where God freely offers it to all and some accept and some reject.  Those that accept become "born again" and begin their christian walk.

regardless of whose theology is right, I believe they are both christians. 

BUt I also agree with Ala.  There is no post death conversions.  There is no proof or reason to believe it other than making us feel better.  And if there was, what is the point of worrying now?  Go live like 3rd Gen and deal with it later.

Like I said, I don't know.  I myself certainly believe in Jesus and I pray to him to forgive me for my sins and to take me into his kingdom when I die.  

We Christians know that Satan rules this world and that it is FULL of demons who are misleading and deceiving God's children into making horrible choices.  Many die without faith in Jesus due to, I believe, the deceptions brought upon them by demonic powers.  Does Jesus permit these poor souls to go to Hell or to die into non-existence?  I doubt it, but I don't know.

[P1tchblack]

MacAuthur is more of a Calvinist I believe, where you don't "choose" to be saved, God chooses to save you.  Not to get too theological, but then at that point you are born again, given a new spirit, and then begin your christian walk.  Thats the very simplified version, but basically it.

Alabuck, from what I can remember, is more Wesleyan where God freely offers it to all and some accept and some reject.  Those that accept become "born again" and begin their christian walk.

regardless of whose theology is right, I believe they are both christians. 

BUt I also agree with Ala.  There is no post death conversions.  There is no proof or reason to believe it other than making us feel better.  And if there was, what is the point of worrying now?  Go live like 3rd Gen and deal with it later.

Like I said, I don't know.  I myself certainly believe in Jesus and I pray to him to forgive me for my sins and to take me into his kingdom when I die.  

We Christians know that Satan rules this world and that it is FULL of demons who are misleading and deceiving God's children into making horrible choices.  Many die without faith in Jesus due to, I believe, the deceptions brought upon them by demonic powers.  Does Jesus permit these poor souls to go to Hell or to die into non-existence?  I doubt it, but I don't know.

Interesting side topic: There's no mention of Hell, as you reference it above, in the Old Testament, nor did Jesus teach that there was a Hell.  Jews didn't believe in hell because they didn't believe in a soul, so there was no reason to believe in a Hell as post-death destination for your soul.

[K9Buck]

I haven't seen a verse that explicitly states that non-believers are condemned to Hell if they die without having accept Christ. One can infer that some verses imply such a thing, but to me, it leaves open the possibility that Jesus saves non-believers even AFTER death.

Now, let me be clear.

I AM NOT SAYING THAT NON-BELIEVERS DON'T GO TO HELL IF THEY DIE WITHOUT ACCEPTING CHRIST.

I'm not saying anything; I'm just thinking out loud.

[K9Buck]

Read John 3.  Jesus DID speak of being born again.

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”

This is the whole premise of the Christian movement of being "born again".  According to MacArthur, you can't cause yourself to be born into the spirit just like you could not have caused yourself to be born in the flesh.  Many Christians have a fundamental misunderstanding of what that verse means.

[Alabuckeye]

McArthur is right. I can not work my way into salvation. Nor can anyone.

And when Jesus says something, I'd say it is worthy of becoming a premise by which we place doctrine.

[K9Buck]

McArthur is right.  I can not work my way into salvation.  Nor can anyone.

Did you listen to his sermon that I shared?  

Are you a Baptist?