Welcome to the zigbeenuthouse!!! Our discussion board has topics on ALL Sports and teams from college to pros, Reds, Buckeyes, Bengals, Browns, Food, US politics, religion, news, AND MORE! You MUST register with an acct. to post here. The access to read as non member is open. Please register and gain an acct. with user name to post and ENJOY this site. (June 11, 2019)

Quote of the day: Your life doesn't get better by chance. It gets better by change. (April 03, 2020)


Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Oregon decriminalized meth, heroin, and cocaine
#37
That argument works if you believe that the majority of police are looking to "turn a traffic stop into a chance to put someone in jail".

AND, if you do believe that, and following that 'logic' I would suspect those police whom you don't trust, will just turn to something else to "turn a traffic stop into a chance to put someone in jail".

No longer GroupThink 'woke'.  but it was fun while it lasted.
Reply
#38
(11-05-2020, 10:25 AM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 10:17 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 10:14 AM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 10:11 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: Yes, you have posted that numerous times but like everything else, you don't provide context.  That was a stop involving a special high crime area unit that goes to extraordinary lengths to try and reduce violent crime in one of the worst areas in the country.  Do they hit a home run every time?  No, but if you do stupid things to attract their attention, you might be inconvenienced.

Why did they bring in a K9 if not to try to bust a kid for possessing drugs?

It's what they do since the area is well known for drug dealers.  Also if you catch a felon violating probation by having drugs you can get him off the street for awhile.

Right, so drugs are not largely decriminalized, which is why they're trying to bust people for possessing it.  If people didn't have to be worried about BS laws regarding possessing small amounts of drugs, traffic stops would be safer for cops, because idiot cops, like the ones in the video, would have one less reason turn a simple traffic stop into an opportunity to put a person in jail for nothing.

They agree to not have drugs as a condition of probation.  That probation is related to some other criminal activity.  Like I said, people who use drugs are nearly always dysfunctional fools who cannot stay out of trouble.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


Reply
#39
(11-05-2020, 09:21 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: My deal with you losertarians is simply this.  Eliminate the welfare state that allows drug addicts to survive without working and then we can talk about legalization.  But they won't go for that and instead demand legalization as their priority.  That is why I call them fake libertarians.
I would love to do that, it isn't realistic, though. The welfare state is not going away any time soon. So, we need to work to minimize its use and impact. 

This is why libertarians don't gain any traction, because they nominate people who aren't willing to bend their ideologies to reality. Libertarian candidates are out there saying they are going to do things like eliminate welfare. That's crazy talk, and it makes them sound ridiculous because that is not a feasible goal right now. It would take many steps to undo the welfare state, and likely decades of continued libertarian control over the government. It's just not going to happen. We need to play inside the bounds of reality.
Reply
#40
(11-05-2020, 10:36 AM)wydileie Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 09:21 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: My deal with you losertarians is simply this.  Eliminate the welfare state that allows drug addicts to survive without working and then we can talk about legalization.  But they won't go for that and instead demand legalization as their priority.  That is why I call them fake libertarians.
I would love to do that, it isn't realistic, though. The welfare state is not going away any time soon. So, we need to work to minimize its use and impact. 

This is why libertarians don't gain any traction, because they nominate people who aren't willing to bend their ideologies to reality. Libertarian candidates are out there saying they are going to do things like eliminate welfare. That's crazy talk, and it makes them sound ridiculous because that is not a feasible goal right now. It would take many steps to undo the welfare state, and likely decades of continued libertarian control over the government. It's just not going to happen. We need to play inside the bounds of reality.

A welfare state is why legalization is not feasible.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


Reply
#41
(11-05-2020, 10:30 AM)Conanthelibrarian Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 09:21 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 03:11 AM)wydileie Wrote:
(11-04-2020, 11:50 PM)BWT30 Wrote:
(11-04-2020, 10:16 AM)wydileie Wrote: Honestly, decriminalizing drug use is the smart play. Throwing people in jail for using drugs just makes the situation worse. They get felonies on their record making it nigh impossible they could ever get a decent job and turn their life around. They get exposed to violent criminal elements in prison, and recidivism is extremely high for drug users, usually for more serious crimes later on, because they become friendly with the seedier elements of society in jail.

Everyone always says if you legalize drugs, you are going to get a bunch of people starting to use drugs. That's actually not the case. In fact, drug use often goes down. It is much more helpful (and much better spent money) for these people to get proper treatment and care in a real rehab facility than prison.
Hey I personally don't care what you ingest into your body.............just don't ask me to treat you with tax payer money ( Generic naloxone can cost between $[b]20 and $40 per dose[/b]…) and the cost of rehab!!
And prison is $120-250/day. You put someone in jail for a felony drug use after a couple arrests, and all of the sudden they have a mandatory minimum of a year in prison. There goes $40-80K in tax payer dollars, and greatly increases the chances that person commits additional crimes leading to even more tax payer money. That doesnâ€t even count the thousands or tens of thousands spent to prosecute them. 

Or, you could a $10K bill to send them to rehab for a month where they have a chance to get real help and not throw their life away. 

Iâ€m a libertarian, and a pragmatist. I want to spend the least amount of government money to fix a problem. Preferably the government wouldnâ€t be involved at all and this would be all charity run, but itâ€s hard to tell if thatâ€s feasible. This is the most cost effective measure with the greatest chance of long term success.

My deal with you losertarians is simply this.  Eliminate the welfare state that allows drug addicts to survive without working and then we can talk about legalization.  But they won't go for that and instead demand legalization as their priority.  That is why I call them fake libertarians.

I donâ€t totally disagree HT.  But at least Libertairans, IMO, have solutions and somewhat realistic options, which is what I appreciate about them.  Democrats often have no real solutions or options.  
As far as this example, you cant deconstruct the welfare state, so he is at least trying to tackle it from an economic viewpoint.  
I would love to see certain drug offenses become mandatory rehab instead of mandatory prison.  See in 5 years what the results are.  Whatâ€s the harm?  The drug war, while Iâ€m sympathetic too, has not really been that effective.  Iâ€m willing to at least listen to other options.  
I would say heâ€s at least trying to take the world as it is, not as he wishes it to be.

Also wanted to say, Liberatarians would gain more traction if they werenâ€t so Ideologically pure at times.  There are people out there who would love to jump on the train, but it needs to be realistic.
Reply
#42
(11-05-2020, 10:31 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 10:25 AM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 10:17 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 10:14 AM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 10:11 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: Yes, you have posted that numerous times but like everything else, you don't provide context.  That was a stop involving a special high crime area unit that goes to extraordinary lengths to try and reduce violent crime in one of the worst areas in the country.  Do they hit a home run every time?  No, but if you do stupid things to attract their attention, you might be inconvenienced.

Why did they bring in a K9 if not to try to bust a kid for possessing drugs?

It's what they do since the area is well known for drug dealers.  Also if you catch a felon violating probation by having drugs you can get him off the street for awhile.

Right, so drugs are not largely decriminalized, which is why they're trying to bust people for possessing it.  If people didn't have to be worried about BS laws regarding possessing small amounts of drugs, traffic stops would be safer for cops, because idiot cops, like the ones in the video, would have one less reason turn a simple traffic stop into an opportunity to put a person in jail for nothing.

They agree to not have drugs as a condition of probation.  That probation is related to some other criminal activity.  Like I said, people who use drugs are nearly always dysfunctional fools who cannot stay out of trouble.

You're moving the goalposts.  This isn't about probation.  If police can't turn a traffic stop into an excuse to put someone in jail for minor drug possession, then it makes the cops job safer.
Reply
#43
(11-05-2020, 10:41 AM)Conanthelibrarian Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 10:30 AM)Conanthelibrarian Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 09:21 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 03:11 AM)wydileie Wrote:
(11-04-2020, 11:50 PM)BWT30 Wrote: Hey I personally don't care what you ingest into your body.............just don't ask me to treat you with tax payer money ( Generic naloxone can cost between $[b]20 and $40 per dose[/b]…) and the cost of rehab!!
And prison is $120-250/day. You put someone in jail for a felony drug use after a couple arrests, and all of the sudden they have a mandatory minimum of a year in prison. There goes $40-80K in tax payer dollars, and greatly increases the chances that person commits additional crimes leading to even more tax payer money. That doesnâ€t even count the thousands or tens of thousands spent to prosecute them. 

Or, you could a $10K bill to send them to rehab for a month where they have a chance to get real help and not throw their life away. 

Iâ€m a libertarian, and a pragmatist. I want to spend the least amount of government money to fix a problem. Preferably the government wouldnâ€t be involved at all and this would be all charity run, but itâ€s hard to tell if thatâ€s feasible. This is the most cost effective measure with the greatest chance of long term success.

My deal with you losertarians is simply this.  Eliminate the welfare state that allows drug addicts to survive without working and then we can talk about legalization.  But they won't go for that and instead demand legalization as their priority.  That is why I call them fake libertarians.

I donâ€t totally disagree HT.  But at least Libertairans, IMO, have solutions and somewhat realistic options, which is what I appreciate about them.  Democrats often have no real solutions or options.  
As far as this example, you cant deconstruct the welfare state, so he is at least trying to tackle it from an economic viewpoint.  
I would love to see certain drug offenses become mandatory rehab instead of mandatory prison.  See in 5 years what the results are.  Whatâ€s the harm?  The drug war, while Iâ€m sympathetic too, has not really been that effective.  Iâ€m willing to at least listen to other options.  
I would say heâ€s at least trying to take the world as it is, not as he wishes it to be.

Also wanted to say, Liberatarians would gain more traction if they werenâ€t so Ideologically pure at times.  There are people out there who would love to jump on the train, but it needs to be realistic.

Libertarianism in 1800 might have worked.  Libertarianism today would be violent lawless anarchy with a growing population of low IQ third world people in America.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


Reply
#44
Traffic stops are a tool for police to catch felons. I'm good with that. They're good with that. Criminals aren't. Good.
Reply
#45
(11-05-2020, 12:14 PM)3rdgensooner Wrote: Traffic stops are a tool for police to catch felons. I'm good with that. They're good with that. Criminals aren't. Good.

Lots of people are good with it, but it absolutely makes cops' jobs more dangerous.  If traffic stops didn't turn into searches and warrant checks, there would be no reason for people to run, argue, start gun fights, etc.
Reply
#46
(11-05-2020, 12:53 PM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 12:14 PM)3rdgensooner Wrote: Traffic stops are a tool for police to catch felons. I'm good with that. They're good with that. Criminals aren't. Good.

Lots of people are good with it, but it absolutely makes cops' jobs more dangerous.  If traffic stops didn't turn into searches and warrant checks, there would be no reason for people to run, argue, start gun fights, etc.

Your idea that police would be safer by avoiding contact with scumbag criminals sort of destroys the whole idea of having police.  But I guess that is typical of drug legalization logic.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


Reply
#47
Beat me to it. Yeah the cops should avoid contacting criminals that's dangerous. We need social workers for that anyway.
Reply
#48
(11-05-2020, 01:06 PM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 12:53 PM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 12:14 PM)3rdgensooner Wrote: Traffic stops are a tool for police to catch felons. I'm good with that. They're good with that. Criminals aren't. Good.

Lots of people are good with it, but it absolutely makes cops' jobs more dangerous.  If traffic stops didn't turn into searches and warrant checks, there would be no reason for people to run, argue, start gun fights, etc.

Your idea that police would be safer by avoiding contact with scumbag criminals sort of destroys the whole idea of having police.  But I guess that is typical of drug legalization logic.

That's not what I'm saying.  Police should try to track down people with warrants, suspected criminals, etc.  Turning every traffic stop into a vehicle search and background check unnecessarily endangers the life of multiple people.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Agree or disagree with this Oregon gun shop owner? maize 18 321 10-25-2023, 08:51 PM
Last Post: stxbuck
  Oregon extends the drop of essential skills to graduate ChinaBuck 30 496 10-23-2023, 09:00 PM
Last Post: davebucknut
  Something brewing between tOSU and Oregon? Syncro 90 1,194 08-10-2023, 03:33 PM
Last Post: wydileie
  Cocaine Shark maize 1 56 07-22-2023, 02:24 AM
Last Post: Bonebuck
  TWIP:Cocaine Bear Edition Iowa Mels 3 97 07-09-2023, 06:35 PM
Last Post: ChinaBuck
  Oregon just keeps doubling down zigbee 10 195 03-01-2023, 05:20 PM
Last Post: Syncro
  Phil Knight declares war on Democrat's in Oregon TcSoup 13 316 10-21-2022, 07:41 AM
Last Post: maize
  Stay classy, Eugene Oregon Syncro 26 561 09-24-2022, 03:34 PM
Last Post: Georgem80
  Oregon Governor Race Beastdog 2 147 06-02-2022, 07:36 AM
Last Post: Syncro
  Oregon creates menstrual dignity act. This state is gone zigbee 13 464 05-05-2022, 08:04 PM
Last Post: Georgem80

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)
https://www.facebook.com/Zigbeenuthousecom-425755324858973/?modal=admin_todo_tour