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At MINIMUM, any agreement should have required Iran to disclose any current and past efforts to develop nuclear weapons capability, AT MINIMUM. Then if they were discovered to have had something undisclosed, there could be sanctions etc.
Of course, Iran was given everything up front so even if they didn't comply they would not suffer.
And their missile testing likely accelerated because of the infusion of funds. This was a comically bad agreement whose sole purpose was to get Kerry a Nobel.
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(06-18-2019, 06:02 AM)dunefan Wrote: (06-18-2019, 05:47 AM)somenole Wrote: (06-17-2019, 12:58 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: Hit and run........I wish we could get some Liberals in here that would discuss...... Discuss?  With this lot? Why bring up a question that is intended to inflame and not stay to discuss? Why bring up a question that had he researched (obviously too lazy to use google) he would understand the intentions of Trump's intentions and the shortcomings (malfeasance) of the Obama and Kerry agreement.
Yep...
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Obama just wanted to kick the can down the road for someone else to have to deal with. It would have been FAR better if Obama had simply done nothing. Instead, he gave them BILLIONS.
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And Iran is demonstrably active in terroristic activity in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, working with North Korea just to name a few. This behavior was not called into question nor diminished by the agreement......
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(06-18-2019, 10:28 AM)Alabuckeye Wrote: And Iran is demonstrably active in terroristic activity in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, working with North Korea just to name a few. This behavior was not called into question nor diminished by the agreement......
And killing Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan. But when did American liberals ever care about Americans?
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I did some editing here. IF we want debate from others etc let's NOT be on the attack of them with names lest they rarely show up. Have respect for the poster no matter your disagreement with the post content.
Thanks for your cooperation as always.
Make America Honest Again
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I didn't stay yesterday because I usually post on my lunch hour and it was extremely busy. ALso, I haven't posted in a while because there is precious little actual discussion. So I appreciate the actual responses.
So the answer as to the end game seems to be "I don't know." Which is okay.
Yes, attacking shipping is terrorism, but honestly, Iran was never a threat to us, and only attacks shipping or threatens to attack shipping when it is feeling threatened, because it doesn't have many other cards to play. If we hadn't pulled out of the deal, they wouldn't be attacking shipping.
Iran was puzzled that we didn't work with them after 911. There was an opening there which we didn't take. Iran's government sucks like Saudi Arabia's government. Iran is more of a democracy than Saudi Arabia is. It is an actual pseudo-democracy. meaning, the voting is legit but the candidates are selected by religious zealots. The politics is real though, with real disagreements. There is an opening there which we aren't taking. It would be far more effective to work with Iran as an ally than it has been to consider them a terrorist state and an enemy. North Korea seems like that to Trump, when in reality there is no opening in NK and never was one.
Maybe there was no Iran nuclear program, but I doubt it because the intelligence community didn't create the malware to hinder it for no reason (etc. etc.).
Yes, Iran supports terrorism and an insurgency in Yemen, for example. But we also support the Saudi terror in Yemen which is doing just as much damage and inflicting untold horrors on innocent people. Are we the boogie man too? Many countries are right now supporting terrorism including us. The difference is, we have a good country with a free people, and their people chaff under the yoke of religious extremists.
Even so, there is an opening there, and we are not taking it. Starving Iran of cash to support its proxy wars is smart, but so far hasn't had a huge effect, has it? I still think working with them would be more effective. I guess we will see. Regime change doesn't seem likely.
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(06-18-2019, 11:14 AM)JamesWright Wrote: I didn't stay yesterday because I usually post on my lunch hour and it was extremely busy. ALso, I haven't posted in a while because there is precious little actual discussion. So I appreciate the actual responses.
So the answer as to the end game seems to be "I don't know." Which is okay.
Yes, attacking shipping is terrorism, but honestly, Iran was never a threat to us, and only attacks shipping or threatens to attack shipping when it is feeling threatened, because it doesn't have many other cards to play. If we hadn't pulled out of the deal, they wouldn't be attacking shipping.
Iran was puzzled that we didn't work with them after 911. There was an opening there which we didn't take. Iran's government sucks like Saudi Arabia's government. Iran is more of a democracy than Saudi Arabia is. It is an actual pseudo-democracy. meaning, the voting is legit but the candidates are selected by religious zealots. The politics is real though, with real disagreements. There is an opening there which we aren't taking. It would be far more effective to work with Iran as an ally than it has been to consider them a terrorist state and an enemy. North Korea seems like that to Trump, when in reality there is no opening in NK and never was one.
Maybe there was no Iran nuclear program, but I doubt it because the intelligence community didn't create the malware to hinder it for no reason (etc. etc.).
Yes, Iran supports terrorism and an insurgency in Yemen, for example. But we also support the Saudi terror in Yemen which is doing just as much damage and inflicting untold horrors on innocent people. Are we the boogie man too? Many countries are right now supporting terrorism including us. The difference is, we have a good country with a free people, and their people chaff under the yoke of religious extremists.
Even so, there is an opening there, and we are not taking it. Starving Iran of cash to support its proxy wars is smart, but so far hasn't had a huge effect, has it? I still think working with them would be more effective. I guess we will see. Regime change doesn't seem likely. Thanks for posting and please return to be a part of the NutHouse.
Make America Honest Again
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(06-18-2019, 11:14 AM)JamesWright Wrote: I didn't stay yesterday because I usually post on my lunch hour and it was extremely busy. ALso, I haven't posted in a while because there is precious little actual discussion. So I appreciate the actual responses.
So the answer as to the end game seems to be "I don't know." Which is okay.
Yes, attacking shipping is terrorism, but honestly, Iran was never a threat to us, and only attacks shipping or threatens to attack shipping when it is feeling threatened, because it doesn't have many other cards to play. If we hadn't pulled out of the deal, they wouldn't be attacking shipping.
Iran was puzzled that we didn't work with them after 911. There was an opening there which we didn't take. Iran's government sucks like Saudi Arabia's government. Iran is more of a democracy than Saudi Arabia is. It is an actual pseudo-democracy. meaning, the voting is legit but the candidates are selected by religious zealots. The politics is real though, with real disagreements. There is an opening there which we aren't taking. It would be far more effective to work with Iran as an ally than it has been to consider them a terrorist state and an enemy. North Korea seems like that to Trump, when in reality there is no opening in NK and never was one.
Maybe there was no Iran nuclear program, but I doubt it because the intelligence community didn't create the malware to hinder it for no reason (etc. etc.).
Yes, Iran supports terrorism and an insurgency in Yemen, for example. But we also support the Saudi terror in Yemen which is doing just as much damage and inflicting untold horrors on innocent people. Are we the boogie man too? Many countries are right now supporting terrorism including us. The difference is, we have a good country with a free people, and their people chaff under the yoke of religious extremists.
Even so, there is an opening there, and we are not taking it. Starving Iran of cash to support its proxy wars is smart, but so far hasn't had a huge effect, has it? I still think working with them would be more effective. I guess we will see. Regime change doesn't seem likely.
I think one reason that we don't attempt to establish more close relations with Iran is their strident tone toward Israel. Â Saudi Arabia is similar to Egypt, where there is obvious tension, but the countries have worked together from time to time. Â Iran is very vocal in their hatred toward Israel, evidenced in Amadinejad's comments about the holocaust and other 'death to Israel' tirades.
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" Starving Iran of cash to support its proxy wars is smart, but so far hasn't had a huge effect, has it?"
And thus giving them billions in sequestered funds would be dumb, no?
The "malware" was about their centrifuges, which may not be evidence for a nuclear weapons program.
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-33521655
Everything you ever wanted to know about Iran, the JCPOA and everything else. But weren†t afraid to ask.
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I can see what Iran got, what did the US get from this agreement? Anything?
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