Now We have something Else To Worry About..

[Alabuckeye]

What part of that should not be taken literally, iyo?

[cincydawg]

Well, for me all of it, but it doesn't make sense taken literally:

" I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband."

Does this mean someday an entire Holy City will come "down out of Heaven" prepared as a bride?

Is Heaven "up" in some sense? The Book is replete with allegory and symbolism. I am not sure anyone takes every line literally.

[Brutus Buckeye]

Enoch's city of Zion.

[stxbuck]

One will not be able to recognize this country in another 30 or so years.

Boatloads of Africans being offloaded for for crappy jobs-I think folks in 1800 would have recognized that very readily......................

[stxbuck]

What part of that should not be taken literally, iyo?

I don't think we are going to see the Wailing Wall/Temple 3.0 floating down out of the sky like a Star Trek teleporter................at least that was the impression i got from my theology teacher in HS when I took the course on the Book of Revelation offered at St.X...............

[Alabuckeye]

Well, for me all of it, but it doesn't make sense taken literally:

" I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband."

Does this mean someday an entire Holy City will come "down out of Heaven" prepared as a bride?

Is Heaven "up" in some sense?  The Book is replete with allegory and symbolism.  I am not sure anyone takes every line literally.

For someone as obviously intelligent as yourself, it amazes me time and again the level of obtuseness that you stoop to when discussing the Bible.

[cincydawg]

Maybe I'm not intelligent at all, really, did you ever consider that?

I still don't see a response to my question.

Is this meant to be taken literally or figuratively?

[Alabuckeye]

Maybe I'm not intelligent at all, really, did you ever consider that?

I still don't see a response to my question.

Is this meant to be taken literally or figuratively?

Ok, I'll stroke your ego.  It's obvious you are intelligent.  Until you are being willfully obtuse.

Which part?  The city coming down?  I suspect that's literal......the bridegroom part?  The 'as a' indicates that's figurative.

[cincydawg]

This was my question:

"Would most agree that Revelation is not meant to be taken literally?"

I was speaking about the entire book obviously, with the passage as one example. I surmise some think parts of it are literal and parts are figurative or allegory not meant to be taken literally.

I personally would think a city coming down from the sky is meant to be figurative as well, but I'm sure opinions vary.

Then there is the ever popular Revelation 8:

Then the third angel blew his trumpet, and a great star fell from the sky, burning like a torch. It fell on one-third of the rivers and on the springs of water.

A great star, not a small or middle sized star, not that stars are ever that small, burning like a torch, and it messed up one third of the waters.

The fourth angel sounded his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them turned dark. A third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night.

The author seems hung up on thirds, when obviously any "great star" that got anywhere remotely close to our planet would wreak major havoc gravitationally and due to radiation exposure.

But I'm sure some folks take this literally. I don't. It makes zero sense.

[Alabuckeye]

I suspect much of Revelation to be literal, but quite possibly in the sense that we would understand it.

A PhD once told me that Revelation boils down to this.

There is a battle between good(Jesus) and evil(Lucifer, the prideful angel, banished from heaven).
The battle is great....
Jesus wins.

That's the essence of Revelation.

[cincydawg]

Does Lucifer know the final outcome himself? Does he harbor any hope of winning now?

[Alabuckeye]

Does Lucifer know the final outcome himself?  Does he harbor any hope of winning now?

I have no clue.....

[BoyGenius]

Does Lucifer know the final outcome himself?  Does he harbor any hope of winning now?

Why would Lucifer win or harbor any hope of winning? When one reads the Bible, the answer is clear.
The Book of Job illustrates Satan's role and authority.

[cincydawg]

It seems reasonable that Lucifer "believes in God", and likely is familiar with the Bible and its predictions. If not, "he" is missing out on some significant intel. He also would seem to have had an object lesson in the power of God which exceeds his own.

Thus, if God says in the Bible that Satan is going to lose, ....

It's not like someone claiming Akron will lose to Ohio State in football, we all know that is correct barring some very very unlikely event. It is the God of Absolutes stating it, no exceptions allowed, and clearly.

So, I infer Lucifer knows the outcome, with certainty. This is not even on par with a person armed only with a rock attacking an M1 tank. He either knows he's going to lose or he's an idiot.

[BoyGenius]

Yes, the devil believes God exists... he has no doubts about this.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. James 2:19