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Quote of the day: Keep an open mind! Finding the truth means willingness to listen to many ideas. (April 03, 2020)


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BeastdogUBI
#61
(04-04-2024, 01:54 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: And as a practical political matter, you have to know that isn't going to happen.  The politicians would restore all the other programs for votes and to stop the riots.  You don't really understand the mentality of the welfare class, especially the black welfare class.  At this point, most have zero interest in working.  Most could not fill out a job application or show up each day to work even if given a job.  Even if all they had to do each day was just show up for a good salary, they don't have the ability or desire to even do that. They are quite happy with generous SNAP benefits, Medicaid, government housing, and being paid to crank out babies.  That allows them to live out their totally dysfunctional lifestyle of sleeping and watching TV all day and going out at night.  They have no clue what self sufficiency and personal responsibility is.  And many are also into drugs.

I think those people exist, but I think you are grossly overestimating their prevalence in society. I think taking the chance to stop disincentivizing work and disincentivizing fathers in the household is worth a shot, regardless of whatever consequences you may think could come about. Society is broken, everyone recognizes that, so for everyone to sit here and simply check out of the system and not even try and fix it because it would be too hard, or we may screw it up is a loser's mentality. If everyone else wants to just give up on the US experiment and wait for the inevitable Civil War 2: Nation Destroying Bugaloo, then fine, I'll still be here holding out hope someone may do something useful.
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#62
Generalizing an entire group based on race is common here.  IGNORING the obvious for any other race is expected.

I'm not getting into the race arguments again.    But I see my call about LBJ and Great society and war on poverty was listed in this thread.  Things changed in the 1960s.
Make America Honest Again
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#63
(04-04-2024, 12:57 PM)wydileie Wrote:
(04-04-2024, 11:18 AM)zigbee Wrote: Is your entire hypothesis that NO ONE WORKS?  We all live live off whom?   AI produces everything in terms of wealth to be distributed evenly?

It will be a transition, but I think that conclusion is inevitable, yes. I think you will still have trades to some extent, and some desire for human creations, whether it be carpentry, music, art, etc., but as far as the production of basically everything we use today, I think it will largely be taken over by robots and AI, yes.

I'd say it's way more likely than not that ~90% of jobs that are done on computers today will be gone in 10 years. Robotics still has a ways to catch up as far as detailed work goes, and we are probably at least a half century from seeing them creep into most of the trades, but warehousing jobs will be fully automated in ~10 years, a large portion of manufacturing jobs will be gone in ~10 years, as will menial jobs like fast food and the like.
Will our governments ALLOW this to happen as you predict? I think you are decades too early in most of the predictions but at some point, at least half of what you predict will happen.
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#64
(04-04-2024, 01:06 PM)wydileie Wrote:
(04-04-2024, 11:24 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: Under the current welfare system, no one is prevented from working instead of getting on welfare,  What we have is an 80% out of wedlock birth rate among blacks because they know they can live on welfare.  And for many that is generational.  Given the choice of living on government assistance or working, most will not choose working.

People are not prevented from working on the current welfare system, but it is disincentivized for them to work. Right now they can get stuff for free and if they work and make more than X amount, they lose that. They don't lose UBI, so working has no impact on their benefits, they simply make more money.

I highly, highly, highly disagree with your assessment. People who aren't productive will fall into depression and will eventually either die as a result, or will realize that fact and will start doing something productive. That may or may not become something akin to full time work you see today, but they will start doing something productive.

"I highly, highly, highly disagree with your assessment. People who aren't productive will fall into depression and will eventually either die as a result, or will realize that fact and will start doing something productive. That may or may not become something akin to full time work you see today, but they will start doing something productive."

If this were true, the population of this country would be 175 million, you can't believe this.
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#65
(04-04-2024, 02:16 PM)Sanitarian2 Wrote: If this were true, the population of this country would be 175 million, you can't believe this.

I'm quite positive well more than 175M people work. A lot of them may or may not realize what they are doing is not productive, but they are at least doing something. Unemployment rate is at 3% right now, and labor participation rate is at ~62% (which has been pretty steady for the past decade). A large portion of those 38% are stay at home moms who I would still count as "productive," students in college or some sort of trade school which I would also count as productive, or retired boomers/greatest generation.

Edit:
Also, in case people are interested, I found this amusing. The labor participation rate for black people is higher than white people, and Hispanics are substantially higher:
https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/civilian-...n-rate.htm
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#66
(04-04-2024, 03:05 PM)wydileie Wrote:
(04-04-2024, 02:16 PM)Sanitarian2 Wrote: If this were true, the population of this country would be 175 million, you can't believe this.

I'm quite positive well more than 175M people work. A lot of them may or may not realize what they are doing is not productive, but they are at least doing something. Unemployment rate is at 3% right now, and labor participation rate is at ~62% (which has been pretty steady for the past decade). A large portion of those 38% are stay at home moms who I would still count as "productive," students in college or some sort of trade school which I would also count as productive, or retired boomers/greatest generation.

Edit:
Also, in case people are interested, I found this amusing. The labor participation rate for black people is higher than white people, and Hispanics are substantially higher:
https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/civilian-...n-rate.htm
Actually, I was high, 158 million Americans are in the work force and if you gave basic living stipends to those 158 million, you'd lose a significant percentage. If the Government dropped even 35K on myself and my wife, she'd retire in a second. Mothers in the work force would drop out in a second if they got 35K, they are paying a third of their salary in child care.
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#67
(04-04-2024, 03:10 PM)Sanitarian2 Wrote: Actually, I was high, 158 million Americans are in the work force and if you gave basic living stipends to those 158 million, you'd lose a significant percentage. If the Government dropped even 35K on myself and my wife, she'd retire in a second. Mothers in the work force would drop out in a second if they got 35K, they are paying a third of their salary in child care.

Good. Mothers should have the option to stay home with their children and that would be better for society. You have proved my point for me.

I think people are grossly overestimating the amount of people who would be happy surviving on the bare minimum.
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#68
(04-04-2024, 03:21 PM)wydileie Wrote:
(04-04-2024, 03:10 PM)Sanitarian2 Wrote: Actually, I was high, 158 million Americans are in the work force and if you gave basic living stipends to those 158 million, you'd lose a significant percentage. If the Government dropped even 35K on myself and my wife, she'd retire in a second. Mothers in the work force would drop out in a second if they got 35K, they are paying a third of their salary in child care.

Good. Mothers should have the option to stay home with their children and that would be better for society. You have proved my point for me.

I think people are grossly overestimating the amount of people who would be happy surviving on the bare minimum.

I suppose that depends upon how you define bare minimum, I would guess that your definition and others on this thread would be a bit different. Give people shelter, AC, TV, food and drink, free medical and bit of spending money and I bet at least a quarter of working folk would quit in a minute. Make it three people per bedroom, no AC or Cable, no Cell Phone, Rice and Beans bare minimum and you have a point.
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