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Quote of the day: A Big Bang led to star being born.

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K9BuckWho is "the rock" in Mathew 16:18?
#1
For consistency and ease of reading, I will use the English Standard Version (esv) when citing scripture.

So, here is the verse:
Matthew 16:18 esv
18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock[a] I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Now let's expand the verse to get a better understanding of the context of Jesus' statement.

Matthew 16:13-20
Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell[c] shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed[d] in heaven.” 20 Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.

So Jesus asked a question, which Peter correctly answered and Jesus complimented him and then said that he is "rock", as evidenced by the fact that God had revealed to him that Jesus is the son of God, and then said that he would build his church on "this" rock.

The question is, who is "this" referring to? The Catholic Church teaches that it is Peter. If this was the only mention of "rock" in the Bible it would be hard to dispute their conclusion. However, the words "rock", "foundation", or "cornerstone" are used interchangeably throughout the Bible and they always refer to God/Jesus, except in this ONE instance, according to the Catholic Church.

So, what are the other verses that discuss things like "rock"?

Deuteronomy 32:4
“The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.

That's what Moses said. Was Moses referring to Peter as being "perfect" or was he referring to God?

Even Peter himself referenced scripture that referred to Jesus as "a stone" and "the cornerstone".

1Peter 2:4 esv
As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6 For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

Acts 4:11-13 esv
This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.

Psalm 61:1-3 esv
To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. Of David. Hear my cry, O God, listen to my prayer; from the end of the earth I call to you when my heart is faint. Lead me to the rock that is higher than I, for you have been my refuge, a strong tower against the enemy.

Isaiah 51:1 esv
“Listen to me, you who pursue righteousness, you who seek the Lord: look to the rock from which you were hewn, and to the quarry from which you were dug.

Corinthians 3:11-16 esv
For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Psalm 18:1-2 esv
To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David, the servant of the Lord, who addressed the words of this song to the Lord on the day when the Lord delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul. He said: I love you, O Lord, my strength. The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

Isaiah 26:4 esv
Trust in the Lord forever, for the Lord God is an everlasting rock.

Psalm 19:14 esv
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O Lord, my rock and my redeemer.

Matthew 7:24-25 esv
“Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock.

Psalm 18:46 esv
The Lord lives, and blessed be my rock, and exalted be the God of my salvation—

It's noteworthy that Paul says below that the rock "was Christ".

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 esv
For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

1 Samuel 2:2 esv
“There is none holy like the Lord: for there is none besides you; there is no rock like our God.

2 Samuel 22:2 esv
He said, “The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer,

Psalm 62:6 esv
[b]He only is my rock and my salvation, my fortress; I shall not be shaken.

Psalm 144:1 esv
Of David. [b]Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle;

And this is why I am no longer a Catholic because the Catholic Church is, I believe, a false system that diverts credit and glory away from God and gives them to others. Clearly, Peter is NOT "the" rock but "a" rock.
Anti-individualistic, the Fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State...



- Benito Mussolini
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#2
The following verse from Paul is noteworthy regarding this topic as you can read, Paul doesn't provide any special reverence for Peter but instead reserves that for Jesus.

1 Corinthians 1:10-17
10 I appeal to you, brothers,[a] by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. 11 For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. 12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
Anti-individualistic, the Fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State...



- Benito Mussolini
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#3
Absolutely Correct. Jesus is the Rock of Salvation.

Now dig into why Jesus says “The gates of Hell will not prevail against it.”
Hint…why did Jesus say that there??
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#4
(05-03-2023, 11:23 PM)Orbit1 Wrote: Absolutely Correct. Jesus is the Rock of Salvation.

Now dig into why Jesus says “The gates of Hell will not prevail against it.”
Hint…why did Jesus say that there??

Because Hell's gates cannot withstand the power of God and God will overtake it and convert ALL people to him.
Anti-individualistic, the Fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State...



- Benito Mussolini
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#5
(05-04-2023, 07:48 AM)K9Buck Wrote:
(05-03-2023, 11:23 PM)Orbit1 Wrote: Absolutely Correct. Jesus is the Rock of Salvation.

Now dig into why Jesus says “The gates of Hell will not prevail against it.”
Hint…why did Jesus say that there??

Because Hell's gates cannot withstand the power of God and God will overtake it and convert ALL people to him.

Not what I was looking for…Caesarea Phillipi was where the people literally believed the Gates to Hell were. It was a cave where sacrifices and sexual perversions were done to appease the gods. 

https://www.logos.com/grow/jesus-mean-gates-hell/
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#6
(05-04-2023, 11:13 AM)Orbit1 Wrote:
(05-04-2023, 07:48 AM)K9Buck Wrote:
(05-03-2023, 11:23 PM)Orbit1 Wrote: Absolutely Correct. Jesus is the Rock of Salvation.

Now dig into why Jesus says “The gates of Hell will not prevail against it.”
Hint…why did Jesus say that there??

Because Hell's gates cannot withstand the power of God and God will overtake it and convert ALL people to him.

Not what I was looking for…

That sounds like a YOU problem.
Anti-individualistic, the Fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State...



- Benito Mussolini
Reply
#7
(05-04-2023, 01:38 PM)K9Buck Wrote:
(05-04-2023, 11:13 AM)Orbit1 Wrote:
(05-04-2023, 07:48 AM)K9Buck Wrote:
(05-03-2023, 11:23 PM)Orbit1 Wrote: Absolutely Correct. Jesus is the Rock of Salvation.

Now dig into why Jesus says “The gates of Hell will not prevail against it.”
Hint…why did Jesus say that there??

Because Hell's gates cannot withstand the power of God and God will overtake it and convert ALL people to him.

Not what I was looking for…

That sounds like a YOU problem.

I donâ€t even know what you mean by that statement.
What is MY problem?
Apparently my original question wasnâ€t clear I guess.
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