Accumulating teachers that fit the Bible to your own views

[K9Buck]

It seems that it's not enough simply to "believe" as evidenced by Matthew 7:21-23.

[Hightop77]

It seems that it's not enough simply to "believe" as evidenced by Matthew 7:21-23.

Faith is the issue and all sufficient.  The point is what do you have faith in?

[P1tchblack]

It seems that it's not enough simply to "believe" as evidenced by Matthew 7:21-23.

Faith is the issue and all sufficient.  The point is what do you have faith in?

Faith in what? Faith in god? Faith that Jesus is the son of God? Faith that Jesus died for our sins? Faith that Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into heaven? Faith in something different than all of those items? Is it true that faith without works is dead?

[Hightop77]

It seems that it's not enough simply to "believe" as evidenced by Matthew 7:21-23.

Faith is the issue and all sufficient.  The point is what do you have faith in?

Faith in what? Faith in god? Faith that Jesus is the son of God? Faith that Jesus died for our sins? Faith that Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into heaven? Faith in something different than all of those items? Is it true that faith without works is dead?

This is why the main creeds of the faith are so important and why the church fathers wrote them.  They transform the plain words of the Bible into foundational beliefs.  I would suggest reading them including the Apostle's, the Nicene, and the Athanasian.

[P1tchblack]

It seems that it's not enough simply to "believe" as evidenced by Matthew 7:21-23.

Faith is the issue and all sufficient.  The point is what do you have faith in?

Faith in what? Faith in god? Faith that Jesus is the son of God? Faith that Jesus died for our sins? Faith that Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into heaven? Faith in something different than all of those items? Is it true that faith without works is dead?

This is why the main creeds of the faith are so important and why the church fathers wrote them.  They transform the plain words of the Bible into foundational beliefs.  I would suggest reading them including the Apostle's, the Nicene, and the Athanasian.

Well, if you are unwilling to articulate your views, there isn't really much for you and I to discuss on this topic.

[Hightop77]

It seems that it's not enough simply to "believe" as evidenced by Matthew 7:21-23.

Faith is the issue and all sufficient.  The point is what do you have faith in?

Faith in what? Faith in god? Faith that Jesus is the son of God? Faith that Jesus died for our sins? Faith that Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into heaven? Faith in something different than all of those items? Is it true that faith without works is dead?

This is why the main creeds of the faith are so important and why the church fathers wrote them.  They transform the plain words of the Bible into foundational beliefs.  I would suggest reading them including the Apostle's, the Nicene, and the Athanasian.

Well, if you are unwilling to articulate your views, there isn't really much for you and I to discuss on this topic.

The men who assembled those important creeds are saying more with those then I could ever hope to say on this subject.  If you can't take a few minutes to read them for your own edification, then you are not serious and probably just trolling anyway.

[P1tchblack]

Faith is the issue and all sufficient.  The point is what do you have faith in?

Faith in what? Faith in god? Faith that Jesus is the son of God? Faith that Jesus died for our sins? Faith that Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into heaven? Faith in something different than all of those items? Is it true that faith without works is dead?

This is why the main creeds of the faith are so important and why the church fathers wrote them.  They transform the plain words of the Bible into foundational beliefs.  I would suggest reading them including the Apostle's, the Nicene, and the Athanasian.

Well, if you are unwilling to articulate your views, there isn't really much for you and I to discuss on this topic.

The men who assembled those important creeds are saying more with those then I could ever hope to say on this subject.  If you can't take a few minutes to read them for your own edification, then you are not serious and probably just trolling anyway.

If you are unwilling to articulate and support your views, the fact remains that there is nothing for you and I to discuss.

[Hightop77]

Faith in what? Faith in god? Faith that Jesus is the son of God? Faith that Jesus died for our sins? Faith that Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into heaven? Faith in something different than all of those items? Is it true that faith without works is dead?

This is why the main creeds of the faith are so important and why the church fathers wrote them.  They transform the plain words of the Bible into foundational beliefs.  I would suggest reading them including the Apostle's, the Nicene, and the Athanasian.

Well, if you are unwilling to articulate your views, there isn't really much for you and I to discuss on this topic.

The men who assembled those important creeds are saying more with those then I could ever hope to say on this subject.  If you can't take a few minutes to read them for your own edification, then you are not serious and probably just trolling anyway.

If you are unwilling to articulate and support your views, the fact remains that there is nothing for you and I to discuss.

That's fine if you don't want a discussion.  At least I am not hiding my sources as you obviously are.

[P1tchblack]

This is why the main creeds of the faith are so important and why the church fathers wrote them.  They transform the plain words of the Bible into foundational beliefs.  I would suggest reading them including the Apostle's, the Nicene, and the Athanasian.

Well, if you are unwilling to articulate your views, there isn't really much for you and I to discuss on this topic.

The men who assembled those important creeds are saying more with those then I could ever hope to say on this subject.  If you can't take a few minutes to read them for your own edification, then you are not serious and probably just trolling anyway.

If you are unwilling to articulate and support your views, the fact remains that there is nothing for you and I to discuss.

That's fine if you don't want a discussion.  At least I am not hiding my sources as you obviously are.

There is no single source.  I've been reading about the Bible and religion for decades.  You don't need to be a scholar or have a "source" to recognize that there is no one book or writer that truly states, definitively, what is required for salvation, that's why there are so many people/churches/church leaders who ALL believe they "know"... yet, there is clearly conflict between the beliefs of all the people who supposedly "know".

[Hightop77]

Well, if you are unwilling to articulate your views, there isn't really much for you and I to discuss on this topic.

The men who assembled those important creeds are saying more with those then I could ever hope to say on this subject.  If you can't take a few minutes to read them for your own edification, then you are not serious and probably just trolling anyway.

If you are unwilling to articulate and support your views, the fact remains that there is nothing for you and I to discuss.

That's fine if you don't want a discussion.  At least I am not hiding my sources as you obviously are.

There is no single source.  I've been reading about the Bible and religion for decades.  You don't need to be a scholar or have a "source" to recognize that there is no one book or writer that truly states, definitively, what is required for salvation, that's why there are so many people/churches/church leaders who ALL believe they "know"... yet, there is clearly conflict between the beliefs of all the people who supposedly "know".

The church is in agreement for 2000 years that salvation is based on the sacrifice of Christ and that faith is the instrument that applies that benefit to humanity.  If you want to read a book by an unbeliever trying to dispute that with some parlor tricks that's fine but stop acting like you have the ability to argue anything other than what you are parroting from some nitwit.

[P1tchblack]

The men who assembled those important creeds are saying more with those then I could ever hope to say on this subject.  If you can't take a few minutes to read them for your own edification, then you are not serious and probably just trolling anyway.

If you are unwilling to articulate and support your views, the fact remains that there is nothing for you and I to discuss.

That's fine if you don't want a discussion.  At least I am not hiding my sources as you obviously are.

There is no single source.  I've been reading about the Bible and religion for decades.  You don't need to be a scholar or have a "source" to recognize that there is no one book or writer that truly states, definitively, what is required for salvation, that's why there are so many people/churches/church leaders who ALL believe they "know"... yet, there is clearly conflict between the beliefs of all the people who supposedly "know".

The church is in agreement for 2000 years that salvation is based on the sacrifice of Christ and that faith is the instrument that applies that benefit to humanity.  If you want to read a book by an unbeliever trying to dispute that with some parlor tricks that's fine but stop acting like you have the ability to argue anything other than what you are parroting from some nitwit.

 You still haven't clarified what you personally believe is needed for salvation, so I have no way to respond to that.  However, I'll note again that the bulleted list, which came from a believing source, had to be collected from multiple books of the Bible.  My point, since the beginning, is that Christians can find support for many different requirements for salvation because none of the writers (much less all of them) provides a clear/consistent explanation, despite being, as you claim, commissioned by God and having special insight into his thinking.

[Alabuckeye]

The men who assembled those important creeds are saying more with those then I could ever hope to say on this subject.  If you can't take a few minutes to read them for your own edification, then you are not serious and probably just trolling anyway.

If you are unwilling to articulate and support your views, the fact remains that there is nothing for you and I to discuss.

That's fine if you don't want a discussion.  At least I am not hiding my sources as you obviously are.

There is no single source.  I've been reading about the Bible and religion for decades.  You don't need to be a scholar or have a "source" to recognize that there is no one book or writer that truly states, definitively, what is required for salvation, that's why there are so many people/churches/church leaders who ALL believe they "know"... yet, there is clearly conflict between the beliefs of all the people who supposedly "know".

The church is in agreement for 2000 years that salvation is based on the sacrifice of Christ and that faith is the instrument that applies that benefit to humanity.  If you want to read a book by an unbeliever trying to dispute that with some parlor tricks that's fine but stop acting like you have the ability to argue anything other than what you are parroting from some nitwit.

Bart Ehrman and his ilk are Pitchâ€s source. Apostates and men desirous to disingenuously misconstrue the Bible to their own devices

[Hightop77]

If you are unwilling to articulate and support your views, the fact remains that there is nothing for you and I to discuss.

That's fine if you don't want a discussion.  At least I am not hiding my sources as you obviously are.

There is no single source.  I've been reading about the Bible and religion for decades.  You don't need to be a scholar or have a "source" to recognize that there is no one book or writer that truly states, definitively, what is required for salvation, that's why there are so many people/churches/church leaders who ALL believe they "know"... yet, there is clearly conflict between the beliefs of all the people who supposedly "know".

The church is in agreement for 2000 years that salvation is based on the sacrifice of Christ and that faith is the instrument that applies that benefit to humanity.  If you want to read a book by an unbeliever trying to dispute that with some parlor tricks that's fine but stop acting like you have the ability to argue anything other than what you are parroting from some nitwit.

Bart Ehrman and his ilk are Pitchâ€s source. Apostates and men desirous to disingenuously misconstrue the Bible to their own devices

I knew it was something like that. As I said, the truth could be staring him in the face but he will walk miles out of the way to embrace dishonesty.

[P1tchblack]

If you are unwilling to articulate and support your views, the fact remains that there is nothing for you and I to discuss.

That's fine if you don't want a discussion.  At least I am not hiding my sources as you obviously are.

There is no single source.  I've been reading about the Bible and religion for decades.  You don't need to be a scholar or have a "source" to recognize that there is no one book or writer that truly states, definitively, what is required for salvation, that's why there are so many people/churches/church leaders who ALL believe they "know"... yet, there is clearly conflict between the beliefs of all the people who supposedly "know".

The church is in agreement for 2000 years that salvation is based on the sacrifice of Christ and that faith is the instrument that applies that benefit to humanity.  If you want to read a book by an unbeliever trying to dispute that with some parlor tricks that's fine but stop acting like you have the ability to argue anything other than what you are parroting from some nitwit.

Bart Ehrman and his ilk are Pitchâ€s source. Apostates and men desirous to disingenuously misconstrue the Bible to their own devices

I don't know if there many people that I read/listen to/watch that are of Ehrman's ilk - born again, fundamentalist Christian turned agnostic and teaches New Testament studies at a major university.

But, regardless of the source, all I can do is present my case.  If I'm wrong, then I can be proven wrong.  So, if I say "It doesn't seem as though the apostles have any above average insight into what's needed for salvation because there's no consistent message from them in the Bible", then either that is true or it's not.  If it's wrong, then the Bible should reflect that, right?