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(06-28-2022, 05:37 PM)Georgem80 Wrote: (06-28-2022, 05:27 PM)3rdgensooner Wrote: (06-28-2022, 03:48 PM)Georgem80 Wrote: The use of the atomic weapons is a great historical discussion. Looking at all the perspectives on why it was used and why it wasnâ€t necessary.Â
Ultimately, I think the bombs were used for an audience of one. Stalin.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Interesting take. Is there any historical evidence of that?
Oh itâ€s a big stretch of a take. But, with Eastern Europe in the balance, and Truman hinting at Potsdam of the weapon, itâ€s a pretty good side goal. Of course the primary goal was surrender.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I had wondered if there was any unclassified discussions or correspondence showing or pointing toward that being the case. It is interesting. I had only known of the surrender goal. Obviously no one wanted to invade Japan after Iwo Jima and Okinawa.
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(06-28-2022, 04:02 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: (06-28-2022, 03:55 PM)ScarletHayes Wrote: (06-28-2022, 03:29 PM)davebucknut Wrote: See I've always been torn over low level soldiers getting in trouble over following orders, because had this guy nkt followed orders he would've died 80 years ago.
So I can see both sides of the argument.
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Yup. Â Easy to virtue signal from an arm chair 80 years after the fact. What virtue signaling is going on here
These courts, etc...  act as though all these low level guys could have done anything more than refuse and then get a bullet in the back of their own head.  Look, maybe this guy was a sadistic monster guard. If you can prove that, great.  Otherwise you†re gonna go after a mere guard?  What do people expect those guys to have done?  Statistically speaking, damn near everyone would have merely just done their job as a guard if in the same position.  Everyone on those courts, etc...
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06-28-2022, 05:53 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2022, 05:53 PM by 3rdgensooner.)
He enlisted in the SS. It was no secret what they were. Quite the opposite. The excuses sound like the mothers of criminals. "He got in with a bad crowd". No lady your kid was the bad crowd.
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If there were verified acts (previous witness testimony) he personally did, above and beyond the mere duties of a guard, then I say hang his azz.  If he was just doing basic guard duty then...  really?  Weâ€re going after a 101 year old camp guard?  Seriously?
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(06-28-2022, 05:58 PM)ScarletHayes Wrote: If there were verified acts (previous witness testimony) he personally did, above and beyond the mere duties of a guard, then I say hang his azz.  If he was just doing basic guard duty then...  really?  Weâ€re going after a 101 year old camp guard?  Seriously? Thel will go after anyone who was alive and german back then. They already have.
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(06-28-2022, 03:04 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: Iâ€m good with sending him to jail….what he participated in was heinous.
TC….interesting point/counter point there. It is said that those bombings saved hundreds of thousands of lives because the Japanese were not going to surrender without such an event. The civilian lives lost are horrible…..but the alternative….. Never too late to be held accountable.
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(06-28-2022, 05:58 PM)ScarletHayes Wrote: If there were verified acts (previous witness testimony) he personally did, above and beyond the mere duties of a guard, then I say hang his azz.  If he was just doing basic guard duty then...  really?  Weâ€re going after a 101 year old camp guard?  Seriously? Witnesses?
He was an SS death camp guard. Eff him. Stone him in the streets.
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(06-28-2022, 05:30 PM)unc4corners Wrote: Why did it take this long to prosecute him? He was being investigated by Durham.
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(06-28-2022, 07:05 PM)3rdgensooner Wrote: (06-28-2022, 05:58 PM)ScarletHayes Wrote: If there were verified acts (previous witness testimony) he personally did, above and beyond the mere duties of a guard, then I say hang his azz.  If he was just doing basic guard duty then...  really?  Weâ€re going after a 101 year old camp guard?  Seriously? Witnesses?
He was an SS death camp guard. Eff him. Stone him in the streets. He chose the SS. Complicity in murder does not have Statute of Limitations. If he could have shown he tried to escape from his role in the camp, then I think there is legal recourse. But it seems he chose to stay until the end.
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Kids sign up for the military and mostly have no idea what they are actually getting into. Â The fact he signed up for the SS as a young meathead means very little to me. Â In his mind it was probably just something cool he could brag about to get laid. Â
Iâ€m probably giving this guy too much slack as I donâ€t know the whole history there, but on its face this looks kind of over the top.
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(06-28-2022, 07:11 PM)ScarletHayes Wrote: Kids sign up for the military and mostly have no idea what they are actually getting into. Â The fact he signed up for the SS as a young meathead means very little to me. Â In his mind it was probably just something cool he could brag about to get laid. Â
Iâ€m probably giving this guy too much slack as I donâ€t know the whole history there, but on its face this looks kind of over the top. At the time he enlisted what the SS was and did would have been plainly obvious. He was a death camp guard and he volunteered to join a unit known to do that kind of business. He was there for three years and the camp had existed for years before. You don't get a mulligan for age for that sort of thing. Hound every last one of them to the grave.
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(06-28-2022, 07:11 PM)ScarletHayes Wrote: Kids sign up for the military and mostly have no idea what they are actually getting into. Â The fact he signed up for the SS as a young meathead means very little to me. Â In his mind it was probably just something cool he could brag about to get laid. Â
Iâ€m probably giving this guy too much slack as I donâ€t know the whole history there, but on its face this looks kind of over the top. Kids in Germany during WW 2 knew what they were getting into. This isn't some kid in Pleasantville Indiana looking for adventure. This was the SS. The military wing of the Nazi party. It attracted ideologues and what they were about was known for a long time prior. I'd recommend saving your sympathy for those deserving not monsters.
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(06-28-2022, 07:21 PM)3rdgensooner Wrote: (06-28-2022, 07:11 PM)ScarletHayes Wrote: Kids sign up for the military and mostly have no idea what they are actually getting into. Â The fact he signed up for the SS as a young meathead means very little to me. Â In his mind it was probably just something cool he could brag about to get laid. Â
Iâ€m probably giving this guy too much slack as I donâ€t know the whole history there, but on its face this looks kind of over the top. Kids in Germany during WW 2 knew what they were getting into. This isn't some kid in Pleasantville Indiana looking for adventure. This was the SS. The military wing of the Nazi party. It attracted ideologues and what they were about was known for a long time prior. I'd recommend saving your sympathy for those deserving not monsters.
Fair enough, but the whole nation was "heiil Hitlering" on a daily basis. The youth, a.k.a. the Hitler Youth, were essentially brainwashed from the time they could read. i.e. things aren't always as cut and dried as they seem. Â
I just come at this as a dude that realizes most of humanity is absolutely FOS. Everyone is John Rambo, or a heroic saint, as they remark on things in a calm setting---When in reality 99% of them would be sh1tting their pants in a serious situation, or goose-stepping along so they didn't end up in the bottom of a freshly dug pit themselves. So when I hear they are putting a 101 year old through the ringer, for merely being a guard at a camp, I immediately wonder how those people would have behaved under similar circumstances.
Look, odds are the guy deserves this, so this topic isn't really a hill I consider worth dying on. I'm just trying to keep things as real as possible. Would I have heroically led people out of concentration camps to safety, or would I have most likely done my job and made sure no one escaped?  The truth is often ugly and unpleasant.
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