Honest question on Hell.

[K9Buck]

How many so-called "Christians" are compulsive liars, thieves, murderers, etc., and go to their graves still in sin? Many.

John 14:15
English Standard Version
15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

[K9Buck]

Let's clear up the common misconceptions regarding sin.   One, orthodox Christianity teaches that it is not merely specific sinful actions.  Sin is a condition, an illness every human is born with.  You are a condemned sinner in the womb before you commit your first specific sins.  Two, you will remain a sinner until you die.  Not committing physical murder does not mean you are not a murderer under the standards set by Jesus for fulfilling the law.  Perfect obedience to the Law is not remotely possible in this life.  The OP as usual is focused on the wrong narrative and the wrong ideas.

Really?  I think he asked a sincere question.  I liked your response except for the last sentence.

[K9Buck]

Let's clear up the common misconceptions regarding sin.   One, orthodox Christianity teaches that it is not merely specific sinful actions.  Sin is a condition, an illness every human is born with.  You are a condemned sinner in the womb before you commit your first specific sins.  Two, you will remain a sinner until you die.  Not committing physical murder does not mean you are not a murderer under the standards set by Jesus for fulfilling the law.  Perfect obedience to the Law is not remotely possible in this life.  The OP as usual is focused on the wrong narrative and the wrong ideas.

I agree with this mostly (up to the unnecessary editorial on OP) We live in sin.  But, not original sin.

So? One moment at Bible camp 46 years ago guarantees salvation? Can it be lost? Are works important? Can there be forgiveness/absolution for the same sinful action over and over again?

If we believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, does that tabula rasa sin? Does that and the crucifixion relieve man of original sin? But yet we still sin.


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I understand the idea of baptism washing away original sin...

Ask George where it says that in the Bible.

[K9Buck]

...and get someone hell-roasted for eternity?

I don't believe that humans suffer for eternity, partially based on the following verse:

Revelation 21:8 ESV
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

[Georgem80]

Let's clear up the common misconceptions regarding sin.   One, orthodox Christianity teaches that it is not merely specific sinful actions.  Sin is a condition, an illness every human is born with.  You are a condemned sinner in the womb before you commit your first specific sins.  Two, you will remain a sinner until you die.  Not committing physical murder does not mean you are not a murderer under the standards set by Jesus for fulfilling the law.  Perfect obedience to the Law is not remotely possible in this life.  The OP as usual is focused on the wrong narrative and the wrong ideas.

I agree with this mostly (up to the unnecessary editorial on OP) We live in sin.  But, not original sin.

So? One moment at Bible camp 46 years ago guarantees salvation? Can it be lost? Are works important? Can there be forgiveness/absolution for the same sinful action over and over again?

If we believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, does that tabula rasa sin? Does that and the crucifixion relieve man of original sin? But yet we still sin.


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I understand the idea of baptism washing away original sin...

Ask George where it says that in the Bible.

Says what in the Bible?


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[K9Buck]

Is Josh Duggar going to roast...

Only Jesus can answer that.  We cannot judge him.  We can discern that what he did was offensive to God, but we cannot adjudicate guilt or innocence nor can we issue a sentence.  

Many people do horrible things and then apologize to others and to God and ask for forgiveness and then repent and live respectable lives.  

Followers of Christ (Christians, and when I say "Christians" I mean actual Christians) will NOT face judgment.  Non-Christians will be judged by Christ.  I presume that many will be saved because not everyone has had the same opportunity to know him.  As well, there are people of other faiths that are solid, Godly, people (or so I presume) and they too will be, I believe, saved.  I believe some atheists will be saved.  Some of my Christian friends will disagree with me on this but I believe that Jesus is wise, just, and merciful and that he is looking for every opportunity to save righteous people.  It's possible (or perhaps probable) that MANY who heard about Jesus and rejected him and his teachings will be thrown into the "Lake of Fire" and will simply cease to exist.

Judgment Before the Great White Throne
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

[K9Buck]

stx, anyone that makes a claim about what Jesus expects or what is going to happen, etc., must be able to provide you BIBLICAL evidence to support their claim.  If they cannot, then you should not accept it as a Christian teaching.  Catholics (and I was a Catholic for most of my life) are infamous for making up their own belief systems that are NOWHERE to be found in the Bible.  

With that said, not every truth is in the Bible.  So one might speculate that something is true even though it's not specifically mentioned in the Bible.  That's fine, but they cannot claim it as FACT without scriptural evidence.

[K9Buck]

The whole “Iâ€m saved, doesnâ€t matter what I did afterwards” attitude amongst evangelicals is a major hindrance in people taking said theology seriously, imo. Evangelicals refuse to give straight answers about the behavior of their “own”-or the eternal consequences of said behavior.

Jesus tells us to enter by the narrow gate.  What that means is that we are supposed to follow his commandments and live accordingly.

Matthew 7:13-14
English Standard Version
13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy[a] that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

[Hightop77]

1. The law of God, the most salutary doctrine of life, cannot advance man on his way to righteousness, but rather hinders him.

--- Martin Luther the Heidelberg Disputation of 1518

[Beastdog]

TBH, I've pondered this type of question for a lot of my adult life. Does it really make sense that God gives a higher weight for one's "heaven worthiness" on whether they believe in him vs. how well one treats others? That sounds like bullshit to me. If I were God, I wouldn't give a rip whether you believed in me, I would focus on how you treat others. If you think I'm a fraud, but you're a good Dad, give your time to others, and vote Republican, you're in. If you can cite all the verses in the Bible, show up to Church every Sunday, but you beat your wife, are materialistic and root for the Wolverines, you're going where it's really hot, buddy!

I think the religious big wigs have pushed this whole "believing in him is EVERYTHING" narrative because it pulls in more money for the church. The cheating Michigan fan is keeping the coffers filled, while the generous Republican excellent Dad ain't contributing at all to the "bottom line."

[Sanitarian2]

He is a Jealous God, not sure why either but that's the story. Perhaps he is whatever his creations need him to be at whatever point in history. Of course, the theory is that you really can't be saved/believe in JC with your whole heart and soul and do those evil things, so that's always an out.

[Alabuckeye]

Does one truly believe if there is no repentance and turning from actions that God calls rebellion against Him, aka sin?

Is there true repentance without the faith and obedience expressed in Romanâ€s 12:1-2 among other things?

We can not save ourselves, only Godâ€s grace and forgiveness can do that. Our works do not save us. Our works do prove our faith though as the book of James says.

And STX….American Christianity is a morass of everything from truth to apostasy and heresy.

[Beastdog]

I never said there is no such thing as repentance. But someone who always repents, but continually f*cks up and does mean stuff will be treated more harshly than the good person who happens to be agnostic. Or worships another God. You can cite Bible verses till you're blue in the face claiming otherwise, but I ain't buyin' it. I bet God, if he's out there (and yeah, he's a man!) agrees with my take.

[Hightop77]

TBH, I've pondered this type of question for a lot of my adult life. Does it really make sense that God gives a higher weight for one's "heaven worthiness" on whether they believe in him vs. how well one treats others? That sounds like bullshit to me. If I were God, I wouldn't give a rip whether you believed in me, I would focus on how you treat others. If you think I'm a fraud, but you're a good Dad, give your time to others, and vote Republican, you're in. If you can cite all the verses in the Bible, show up to Church every Sunday, but you beat your wife, are materialistic and root for the Wolverines, you're going where it's really hot, buddy!

I think the religious big wigs have pushed this whole "believing in him is EVERYTHING" narrative because it pulls in more money for the church. The cheating Michigan fan is keeping the coffers filled, while the generous Republican excellent Dad ain't contributing at all to the "bottom line."

I think you have a big misconception.  The truth is neither salvation nor condemnation is based on your behavior.  That is a heresy called Pelagianism.