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Is predestination the basis of Calvinism? - Printable Version

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Is predestination the basis of Calvinism? - K9Buck - 04-10-2022

I guess I can get on Google and do my own research but is it YOUR understanding that predestination is the basis of Calvinism?  

After giving it some thought, I think an argument can be made that predestination is true.  What do you think?  Can it be true?

RE: Is predestination the basis of Calvinism? - Hightop77 - 04-10-2022

Election and predestination are certainly doctrines within Calvinism but throwing those terms out without a real understanding of them is often done by people who wish to create strawmen or be dishonest.  There are other doctrines such total depravity, limited atonement, unconditional election, and irresistible grace that are just as much a basis for Calvinism.

RE: Is predestination the basis of Calvinism? - Orbit1 - 04-11-2022

(04-10-2022, 12:44 AM)K9Buck Wrote: I guess I can get on Google and do my own research but is it YOUR understanding that predestination is the basis of Calvinism?  

After giving it some thought, I think an argument can be made that predestination is true.  What do you think?  Can it be true?

I am def not a Calvinist, but it’s not a worthwhile argument to get into. I could list multiple scriptures against it, and could almost tell you what scriptures some might post for it.
Christ died for the sins of the whole world. I’ll leave it at that.

RE: Is predestination the basis of Calvinism? - Hightop77 - 04-11-2022

People who say they are not Calvinists don't like to get into a serious study of it because they know that to do so would reveal the flaws of their beliefs.

RE: Is predestination the basis of Calvinism? - Orbit1 - 04-11-2022

(04-11-2022, 07:48 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: People who say they are not Calvinists don't like to get into a serious study of it because they know that to do so would reveal the flaws of their beliefs.

Wow! You must be such a far greater student of the scriptures than I am!
I only wish I could have even half of your Biblical knowledge! Lol

RE: Is predestination the basis of Calvinism? - Hightop77 - 04-11-2022

(04-11-2022, 08:30 AM)Orbit1 Wrote:
(04-11-2022, 07:48 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: People who say they are not Calvinists don't like to get into a serious study of it because they know that to do so would reveal the flaws of their beliefs.

Wow! You must be such a far greater student of the scriptures than I am!
I only wish I could have even half of your Biblical knowledge! Lol

LOL. Just a personal observation dude.  No need to get your panties in a wad.  Nearly every Calvinist I know was converted from free will/human decision theology after they studied the issues.  On top of that, when I hear the free will preachers discuss the issue, it is always misrepresented with straw men and dishonesty.

RE: Is predestination the basis of Calvinism? - Orbit1 - 04-11-2022

(04-11-2022, 08:52 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(04-11-2022, 08:30 AM)Orbit1 Wrote:
(04-11-2022, 07:48 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: People who say they are not Calvinists don't like to get into a serious study of it because they know that to do so would reveal the flaws of their beliefs.

Wow! You must be such a far greater student of the scriptures than I am!
I only wish I could have even half of your Biblical knowledge! Lol

LOL. Just a personal observation dude.  No need to get your panties in a wad.  Nearly every Calvinist I know was converted from free will/human decision theology after they studied the issues.  On top of that, when I hear the free will preachers discuss the issue, it is always misrepresented with straw men and dishonesty.

I’ve studied the issues, but you do you.

RE: Is predestination the basis of Calvinism? - Hightop77 - 04-11-2022

(04-11-2022, 09:23 AM)Orbit1 Wrote:
(04-11-2022, 08:52 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(04-11-2022, 08:30 AM)Orbit1 Wrote:
(04-11-2022, 07:48 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: People who say they are not Calvinists don't like to get into a serious study of it because they know that to do so would reveal the flaws of their beliefs.

Wow! You must be such a far greater student of the scriptures than I am!
I only wish I could have even half of your Biblical knowledge! Lol

LOL. Just a personal observation dude.  No need to get your panties in a wad.  Nearly every Calvinist I know was converted from free will/human decision theology after they studied the issues.  On top of that, when I hear the free will preachers discuss the issue, it is always misrepresented with straw men and dishonesty.

I’ve studied the issues, but you do you.

I really doubt it.

RE: Is predestination the basis of Calvinism? - K9Buck - 04-12-2022

(04-11-2022, 05:31 AM)Orbit1 Wrote:
(04-10-2022, 12:44 AM)K9Buck Wrote: I guess I can get on Google and do my own research but is it YOUR understanding that predestination is the basis of Calvinism?  

After giving it some thought, I think an argument can be made that predestination is true.  What do you think?  Can it be true?

I am def not a Calvinist, but it’s not a worthwhile argument to get into. I could list multiple scriptures against it, and could almost tell you what scriptures some might post for it.
Christ died for the sins of the whole world. I’ll leave it at that.


Does everyone that dies in infancy go to Heaven?  

Does everyone, regardless of anything, go to Heaven?  

If the answer to the first question is "yes" and if the answer to the second question is "no", then it seems that it's a "good" thing for people to die in infancy or as a small child, right?  After all, why risk living a life wherein one can potentially end up in Hell for eternity, right?  

Does that make sense to you?  It doesn't to me.  

Let me put it another way.  

Had an infant boy NOT died in a terrible traffic accident he would have grown up to be a Satanist and a mass-murderer.  But, since he died as an infant, he gets a free pass to Heaven, right?  

I'm not so sure.  

The Bible speaks about there being two types of people, those that are of God and those that are NOT of God.  

And doesn't the Holy Spirit call "God's people"?  

It seems that God's people are born, not made.  Now I suppose that one may not necessarily know that they are of God, but that doesn't mean that they're not of God.  

I think it's entirely possible that people who are NOT of God and who die as infants simply cease to exist in the hereafter.  To me, saying that ALL infants go to Heaven is sort of like saying ALL people go to Heaven.  

What some call "predestined" may simply be another way of saying that some people are born of God.  

I guess I believe that people who were NOT of God and who died as infants do NOT go to Heaven, but I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise.

RE: Is predestination the basis of Calvinism? - Hightop77 - 04-12-2022

(04-12-2022, 11:07 AM)K9Buck Wrote:
(04-11-2022, 05:31 AM)Orbit1 Wrote:
(04-10-2022, 12:44 AM)K9Buck Wrote: I guess I can get on Google and do my own research but is it YOUR understanding that predestination is the basis of Calvinism?  

After giving it some thought, I think an argument can be made that predestination is true.  What do you think?  Can it be true?

I am def not a Calvinist, but it’s not a worthwhile argument to get into. I could list multiple scriptures against it, and could almost tell you what scriptures some might post for it.
Christ died for the sins of the whole world. I’ll leave it at that.


Does everyone that dies in infancy go to Heaven?  

Does everyone, regardless of anything, go to Heaven?  

If the answer to the first question is "yes" and if the answer to the second question is "no", then it seems that it's a "good" thing for people to die in infancy or as a small child, right?  After all, why risk living a life wherein one can potentially end up in Hell for eternity, right?  

Does that make sense to you?  It doesn't to me.  

Let me put it another way.  

Had an infant boy NOT died in a terrible traffic accident he would have grown up to be a Satanist and a mass-murderer.  But, since he died as an infant, he gets a free pass to Heaven, right?  

Using the logic that all children get a free pass, babies that are aborted are the most fortunate among us.

RE: Is predestination the basis of Calvinism? - K9Buck - 04-12-2022

Ephesians 2:8-9
English Standard Version
8 For (A)by grace you have been saved (B)through faith. And this is ©not your own doing; (D)it is the gift of God, 9 (E)not a result of works, (F)so that no one may boast.

RE: Is predestination the basis of Calvinism? - K9Buck - 04-12-2022

Agreed HT, that logic makes no sense. The Bible itself tells us that some aborted people are of God and some are not.

RE: Is predestination the basis of Calvinism? - K9Buck - 04-12-2022

Romans 8:29 ESV

29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

RE: Is predestination the basis of Calvinism? - K9Buck - 04-20-2022

This verse further demonstrates that many Godless souls are born and, apparently, destined to eternal destruction or non-existence.

Psalm 58:3 ESV
The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies.

RE: Is predestination the basis of Calvinism? - K9Buck - 04-25-2022

John 6:44 ESV
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.