Singapore is not a great example. Hong Kong might be closer.

Such things are rare because political power rarely exists without economic power being concentrated as well.

A generally free economy can hardly exist without a generally free people.

A planned economy cannot exist with a free people. It's not possible.

(04-16-2019, 07:22 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:

(04-16-2019, 07:21 AM)K9Buck Wrote:

(04-16-2019, 07:16 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: If you have a "free" economy, that isn't technically socialist, but the government presides over a massive welfare state where wealth is taken from productive responsible people and given to unproductive irresponsible people, is it really any better?

I think it can be said that the "welfare" states of the world have far outperformed the truly socialist states.  So, yes, I believe it would be fair to call them "better".

Better in that it is just a different and maybe slower form of death as you eventually drown in debt.

Well, the most prolific of the welfare states seem to be in Scandinavia.  They have democratic, free-market economies, are highly taxed and have many social programs.  Their standards of living are among some of the best in the world.  Their people are free to stay or to leave.  

FWIW, I don't support such a system because I believe that a nation can be even more prosperous by eliminating many federal programs and controls, removing excessive regulations, eliminating most welfare programs and allowing people to be responsible for their own destiny.  But I suppose that's another thread.  In any event, no, the Scandinavian nations are not "socialist".

(04-16-2019, 07:26 AM)cincydawg Wrote: Singapore is not a great example.  Hong Kong might be closer.

Such things are rare because political power rarely exists without economic power being concentrated as well.

A generally free economy can hardly exist without a generally free people.  

A planned economy cannot exist with a free people.  It's not possible.

There's a reason that most of the GREAT innovations in the world happen in the U.S. and other western-style democracies such as Japan, South Korea, Israel, etc.  The further to the left a nation is, the less innovative it becomes due to government strangulation.

By the way, the claim that Hitler, Mussolini, fascism and Nazism are "far-right" is one of the biggest lies to come out of the 20th century. Yet, many mistakenly believe this lie. I have debated it many times with liberals and EVERY SINGLE TIME they end up running from the discussion. It's an easy argument to win. The evidence is overwhelming.

Here's another gem from SF from just this month.  So far that thread is 3 pages long and every post is critical of Trump, his associations with Jews and his "zionist" policies.

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1276611/

Trump is poisoning our cultural with Zionism. Your thoughts?

---

The title speaks for itself. Trump has made many Zionist decisions that are empowering Israel and further hurting the world. Trump's plan to attempt to move the US embassy to Jerusalem aligns us again with a country filled with greed and corruption. Trump also has surrounded himself with many Jews in his office and even has a Jewish son in law. What are your thoughts?

(04-16-2019, 07:35 AM)K9Buck Wrote: By the way, the claim that Hitler, Mussolini, fascism and Nazism are "far-right" is one of the biggest lies to come out of the 20th century.  Yet, many mistakenly believe this lie.  I have debated it many times with liberals and EVERY SINGLE TIME they end up running from the discussion.  It's an easy argument to win.  The evidence is overwhelming.

They are Euro right.  Nowhere close to American right.  But liberals/our media love to conflate the two for political reasons.

Trump gets criticized by both Jews AND anti-semites.

I never really got a handle on why folks hate Jews so much, I guess it's the idea they are too successful and powerful.

I wonder if folks in the US will become anti-Asian at some point.

(04-16-2019, 07:30 AM)K9Buck Wrote:

(04-16-2019, 07:22 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:

(04-16-2019, 07:21 AM)K9Buck Wrote:

(04-16-2019, 07:16 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: If you have a "free" economy, that isn't technically socialist, but the government presides over a massive welfare state where wealth is taken from productive responsible people and given to unproductive irresponsible people, is it really any better?

I think it can be said that the "welfare" states of the world have far outperformed the truly socialist states.  So, yes, I believe it would be fair to call them "better".

Better in that it is just a different and maybe slower form of death as you eventually drown in debt.

Well, the most prolific of the welfare states seem to be in Scandinavia.  They have democratic, free-market economies, are highly taxed and have many social programs.  Their standards of living are among some of the best in the world.  Their people are free to stay or to leave.  

FWIW, I don't support such a system because I believe that a nation can be even more prosperous by eliminating many federal programs and controls, removing excessive regulations, eliminating most welfare programs and allowing people to be responsible for their own destines.  But I suppose that's another thread.  In any event, no, the Scandinavian nations are not "socialist".

But that isn't the model I talked about.  Sweden did not have a large population of unproductive irresponsible people.  Their welfare state was not a system of redistribution of wealth from productive to unproductive.  Nearly all contributed and did not live their entire life on welfare handouts, unlike the mess we have in America.

Sorry, HT. I thought you were asking about contemporary welfare states, not historical welfare states. That's probably another thread.

(04-16-2019, 08:13 AM)K9Buck Wrote: Sorry, HT.  I thought you were asking about contemporary welfare states, not historical welfare states.  That's probably another thread.

I am not sure what the difference is other than demographics and the redistribution aspect of it.

(04-15-2019, 09:08 PM)TakeThePoints Wrote:

(04-15-2019, 07:42 AM)stxbuck Wrote: World's largest online racist/Nazi/KKK/race realist community.

I woulda thought you would have given that title to the Nuthouse.

We only have 2 'race realists" on here, plus a couple passive fanboys of them.

(04-16-2019, 08:03 AM)cincydawg Wrote: Trump gets criticized by both Jews AND anti-semites.

I never really got a handle on why folks hate Jews so much, I guess it's the idea they are too successful and powerful.

I wonder if folks in the US will become anti-Asian at some point.

Folks in the hood' have been anti-Asian for decades now-just ask Ice Cube.........."Black Korea".............

(04-16-2019, 07:26 AM)cincydawg Wrote: Singapore is not a great example.  Hong Kong might be closer.

Such things are rare because political power rarely exists without economic power being concentrated as well.

A generally free economy can hardly exist without a generally free people.  

A planned economy cannot exist with a free people.  It's not possible.

One can have capitalism w/out freedom, but not true freedom w/out capitalism.

(04-16-2019, 08:30 AM)stxbuck Wrote:

(04-16-2019, 08:03 AM)cincydawg Wrote: Trump gets criticized by both Jews AND anti-semites.

I never really got a handle on why folks hate Jews so much, I guess it's the idea they are too successful and powerful.

I wonder if folks in the US will become anti-Asian at some point.

Folks in the hood' have been anti-Asian for decades now-just ask Ice Cube.........."Black Korea".............

They are anti-Jewish, anti-Asian, and anti-white meaning they hate people who work hard and achieve high levels of success.

(04-16-2019, 08:31 AM)stxbuck Wrote:

(04-16-2019, 07:26 AM)cincydawg Wrote: Singapore is not a great example.  Hong Kong might be closer.

Such things are rare because political power rarely exists without economic power being concentrated as well.

A generally free economy can hardly exist without a generally free people.  

A planned economy cannot exist with a free people.  It's not possible.

One can have capitalism w/out freedom...

Any examples?