(04-09-2019, 07:44 AM)stxbuck Wrote: Evangelicals won't publicly come out and say it, but a big reason they are opposed to gay marriage is the fact that it 'legitimizes' gay sex. That's their pov and I don't necessarily disagree with it-the utter revoltingness and incomprehensibility of gay sex-and I think it would be best for gays to stop trying to get Christians/christian churches to change their basic Biblical views-it's not going to happen and it's not going to affect basic, court affirmed civil rights or social equality for gays. Like Groucho Marx said "I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would take me as a member!" Just walk away and stop worrying about what others think if it has no legal repercussions for you.

Speaking for myself (former Catholic now Baptist), the easy thing would just be to let it all slide.  Why fight it?  I'll tell ya why, because it's the right thing to do.  A marriage is the cornerstone of a family.  Making babies and stuff.   Calling a gay relationship a marriage makes a complete and total mockery of the word marriage.  Yeah, yeah, so does divorce.  If i heard that once I heard it a thousand times.

Again, the easy thing would just to ignore the topic and let it all slide.  

For the umpteenth time though, I'm willing to compromise and would agree to get govt out of the marriage business and leave it solely as a religious institution.  I figure if a church marries homosexuals it's not a real church anyway.  My $.02 anyway.

(04-09-2019, 08:03 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote:

(04-09-2019, 07:44 AM)stxbuck Wrote: Evangelicals won't publicly come out and say it, but a big reason they are opposed to gay marriage is the fact that it 'legitimizes' gay sex. That's their pov and I don't necessarily disagree with it-the utter revoltingness and incomprehensibility of gay sex-and I think it would be best for gays to stop trying to get Christians/christian churches to change their basic Biblical views-it's not going to happen and it's not going to affect basic, court affirmed civil rights or social equality for gays. Like Groucho Marx said "I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would take me as a member!" Just walk away and stop worrying about what others think if it has no legal repercussions for you.

Speaking for myself (former Catholic now Baptist), the easy thing would just be to let it all slide.  Why fight it?  I'll tell ya why, because it's the right thing to do.  A marriage is the cornerstone of a family.  Making babies and stuff.   Calling a gay relationship a marriage makes a complete and total mockery of the word marriage.  Yeah, yeah, so does divorce.  If i heard that once I heard it a thousand times.

Again, the easy thing would just to ignore the topic and let it all slide.  

For the umpteenth time though, I'm willing to compromise and would agree to get govt out of the marriage business and leave it solely as a religious institution.  I figure if a church marries homosexuals it's not a real church anyway.  My $.02 anyway.

I don't doubt that the 'marriages" of many gays and lesbians are just as committed as those of many straight folk. I also don';t doubt that many straight marriages are just as messed up and dysfunctional as gay relationships-hello Coach Smith. 
IMO, Christians should not be criticizing a "gay church" marriage any more or less than any other marriage conducted outside the auspices of Christianity-Muslim, Buddhist, Wiccan, civil-etc. At the same time, gays should just accept the fact that their bedroom activities are not compatible w/ Baptist or Catholic doctrine and stop trying to criticize adherents of those faiths-if you don't like the rulebook, don't play the damn game-or bash it's fans-find another one.

Being a conservative often means longing for the past and fearing the future. Being a progressive often means wanting a very different future to get here quickly. I am noticing how many of the liberals I know on FB are "fighting" among themselves not about policy but about how to get there faster. The things that want to change are of course the EC and the filibuster. They believe in majority rule, one person one vote, etc. and think that would enable the future they desire.

Some of them are church goers, but of course they choose "liberal churches". They are interesting to observe, like going to Boston in a sense.

Big Government programs never disappear, the grow and morph, and stick around, or maybe get replaced with something bigger. There is an inherency in this. You can't take away some large benefit viewed as such by a lot of people. And once a new one is started, it grows and takes over. So, I worry more about how to "deal with the inevitable" than somehow fighting against it.

(04-09-2019, 08:15 AM)cincydawg Wrote: Being a conservative often means longing for the past and fearing the future.  Being a progressive often means wanting a very different future to get here quickly.  I am noticing how many of the liberals I know on FB are "fighting" among themselves not about policy but about how to get there faster.  The things that want to change are of course the EC and the filibuster.  They believe in majority rule, one person one vote, etc. and think that would enable the future they desire.

Some of them are church goers, but of course they choose "liberal churches".  They are interesting to observe, like going to Boston in a sense.

Big Government programs never disappear, the grow and morph, and stick around, or maybe get replaced with something bigger.  There is an inherency in this.  You can't take away some large benefit viewed as such by a lot of people.  And once a new one is started, it grows and takes over.  So, I worry more about how to "deal with the inevitable" than somehow fighting against it.

Being a libertarian means wanting government to leave everyone the hell alone! I forget who posited the original sentiment, but a smart person once said whenever a new government bureaucracy is established, it will perpetuate itself forever, far beyond it's original purpose or scope of usefulness.
You are right about conservatives as well-and this is why they don't like libertarian povs-they can't stomach the thought of someone telling them to get over the fact they can't back the clock by force

(04-09-2019, 08:13 AM)stxbuck Wrote:

(04-09-2019, 08:03 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote:

(04-09-2019, 07:44 AM)stxbuck Wrote: Evangelicals won't publicly come out and say it, but a big reason they are opposed to gay marriage is the fact that it 'legitimizes' gay sex. That's their pov and I don't necessarily disagree with it-the utter revoltingness and incomprehensibility of gay sex-and I think it would be best for gays to stop trying to get Christians/christian churches to change their basic Biblical views-it's not going to happen and it's not going to affect basic, court affirmed civil rights or social equality for gays. Like Groucho Marx said "I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would take me as a member!" Just walk away and stop worrying about what others think if it has no legal repercussions for you.

Speaking for myself (former Catholic now Baptist), the easy thing would just be to let it all slide.  Why fight it?  I'll tell ya why, because it's the right thing to do.  A marriage is the cornerstone of a family.  Making babies and stuff.   Calling a gay relationship a marriage makes a complete and total mockery of the word marriage.  Yeah, yeah, so does divorce.  If i heard that once I heard it a thousand times.

Again, the easy thing would just to ignore the topic and let it all slide.  

For the umpteenth time though, I'm willing to compromise and would agree to get govt out of the marriage business and leave it solely as a religious institution.  I figure if a church marries homosexuals it's not a real church anyway.  My $.02 anyway.

I don't doubt that the 'marriages" of many gays and lesbians are just as committed as those of many straight folk. I also don';t doubt that many straight marriages are just as messed up and dysfunctional as gay relationships-hello Coach Smith. 
IMO, Christians should not be criticizing a "gay church" marriage any more or less than any other marriage conducted outside the auspices of Christianity-Muslim, Buddhist, Wiccan, civil-etc. At the same time, gays should just accept the fact that their bedroom activities are not compatible w/ Baptist or Catholic doctrine and stop trying to criticize adherents of those faiths-if you don't like the rulebook, don't play the damn game-or bash it's fans-find another one.

Taking govt's seal of approval off their relationship is the overall best compromise IMO.  Allowing the govt into normal/real marriages in the first place was our first mistake (regarding this topic) as a society.  Then again, no one saw this coming as no previous civilization in the history of the planet's existence ever put its stamp of approval on a gay union.  Now I'm sure there were some historical outliers, but I'm talking big picture. 

Whatever the case, just get govt out of it so I don't have to listen to the wailing and gnashing of teeth.  These people all act like Newman, "out on a ledge," professing his love for Sylvio's wife.  I can't take it anymore.  

(04-09-2019, 08:03 AM)zigbee Wrote:

(04-09-2019, 07:59 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: This country is lost and its not coming back.

There are parts gone and this is the way human life is.  Things change.  People change.  Institutions change for better or worse.   Only time will tell how this plays out.  I'm sure people before the civil war felt the same way and of course AFTER the war.   I'm sure people felt this way prior to the American Revolution AND AFTER the Revolution.  I'm sure people felt this way during the depression and WWII.  People adapt and of course for good or bad things change.  There are millions of good people in this country and millions with good ideas who want normalcy, not nostrums, but normalcy and at some point that will return.

The USA might exist in some form but not as the upwardly mobile free country it once was.  Socialism and worse is around the corner.  The ideas from Democrats people laugh at today are tomorrow's reality.

Ya know, Sanders the socialist is from Vermont, which is like 98.4% white.  Just thought I'd throw that out there.  

(04-09-2019, 08:51 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:

(04-09-2019, 08:03 AM)zigbee Wrote:

(04-09-2019, 07:59 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: This country is lost and its not coming back.

There are parts gone and this is the way human life is.  Things change.  People change.  Institutions change for better or worse.   Only time will tell how this plays out.  I'm sure people before the civil war felt the same way and of course AFTER the war.   I'm sure people felt this way prior to the American Revolution AND AFTER the Revolution.  I'm sure people felt this way during the depression and WWII.  People adapt and of course for good or bad things change.  There are millions of good people in this country and millions with good ideas who want normalcy, not nostrums, but normalcy and at some point that will return.

The USA might exist in some form but not as the upwardly mobile free country it once was.  Socialism and worse is around the corner.  The ideas from Democrats people laugh at today are tomorrow's reality.

There will always be successful people and there will always be ingenuity among our people of the US.   There will not be an IRON curtain to descend across our borders and the nation go back to the stone age with wealth taken and people becoming slaves of the government.  Things may change several times and there may be a division in the nation to create 2 or 3 new nations.  Time will tell

(04-09-2019, 09:04 AM)zigbee Wrote:

(04-09-2019, 08:51 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:

(04-09-2019, 08:03 AM)zigbee Wrote:

(04-09-2019, 07:59 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: This country is lost and its not coming back.

There are parts gone and this is the way human life is.  Things change.  People change.  Institutions change for better or worse.   Only time will tell how this plays out.  I'm sure people before the civil war felt the same way and of course AFTER the war.   I'm sure people felt this way prior to the American Revolution AND AFTER the Revolution.  I'm sure people felt this way during the depression and WWII.  People adapt and of course for good or bad things change.  There are millions of good people in this country and millions with good ideas who want normalcy, not nostrums, but normalcy and at some point that will return.

The USA might exist in some form but not as the upwardly mobile free country it once was.  Socialism and worse is around the corner.  The ideas from Democrats people laugh at today are tomorrow's reality.

There will always be successful people and there will always be ingenuity among our people of the US.   There will not be an IRON curtain to descend across our borders and the nation go back to the stone age with wealth taken and people becoming slaves of the government.  Things may change several times and there may be a division in the nation to create 2 or 3 new nations.  Time will tell

There will always be an elite class and there was in the Soviet Union.  However the United States we knew before will not exist as our demographics become more third world.  We are already seeing characteristics of a banana republic creep in.  Its over.  The election of Trump was a nice back lash but you can't stop the tide.

(04-09-2019, 09:41 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:

(04-09-2019, 09:04 AM)zigbee Wrote:

(04-09-2019, 08:51 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:

(04-09-2019, 08:03 AM)zigbee Wrote:

(04-09-2019, 07:59 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: This country is lost and its not coming back.

There are parts gone and this is the way human life is.  Things change.  People change.  Institutions change for better or worse.   Only time will tell how this plays out.  I'm sure people before the civil war felt the same way and of course AFTER the war.   I'm sure people felt this way prior to the American Revolution AND AFTER the Revolution.  I'm sure people felt this way during the depression and WWII.  People adapt and of course for good or bad things change.  There are millions of good people in this country and millions with good ideas who want normalcy, not nostrums, but normalcy and at some point that will return.

The USA might exist in some form but not as the upwardly mobile free country it once was.  Socialism and worse is around the corner.  The ideas from Democrats people laugh at today are tomorrow's reality.

There will always be successful people and there will always be ingenuity among our people of the US.   There will not be an IRON curtain to descend across our borders and the nation go back to the stone age with wealth taken and people becoming slaves of the government.  Things may change several times and there may be a division in the nation to create 2 or 3 new nations.  Time will tell

There will always be an elite class and there was in the Soviet Union.  However the United States we knew before will not exist as our demographics become more third world.  We are already seeing characteristics of a banana republic creep in.  Its over.  The election of Trump was a nice back lash but you can't stop the tide.

Thats your opinion.   Not that it is correct, especially about the Banana Republic and so forth.  The elite class in this nation compared to what you say was in Soviet Union?  Not close.

Gays want to push it in your face and make you accept them. The creeps at the Silicon Valley companies treat the trannys and cross dressers like theyre unicorns that need to be cherished. White men need to be punished. Did Pence actually come out and say something about Mayor Pete ?

(04-09-2019, 10:08 AM)BigDroppa Wrote: Gays want to push it in your face and make you accept them. The creeps at the Silicon Valley companies treat the trannys and cross dressers like theyre unicorns that need to be cherished. White men need to be punished. Did Pence actually come out and say something about Mayor Pete ?

Just curious-do you have any gays in your everyday life who offend you w/ their lifestyle/actions/ are dragging down your neighborhood-or do you just react to what read on Breitbart?

(04-09-2019, 10:10 AM)Rstxbuck Wrote:

(04-09-2019, 10:08 AM)BigDroppa Wrote: Gays want to push it in your face and make you accept them. The creeps at the Silicon Valley companies treat the trannys and cross dressers like theyre unicorns that need to be cherished. White men need to be punished. Did Pence actually come out and say something about Mayor Pete ?

Just curious-do you have any gays in your everyday life who offend you w/ their lifestyle/actions/ are dragging down your neighborhood-or do you just react to what read on Breitbart?

None. Breitbart is a good site but that has nothing to do with my comment. 

Do you attend the gay pride parades?  Are they great for children ? Can we have straight pride parades or would that be hateful?

So what do Pence do to this guy?

(04-09-2019, 10:26 AM)BigDroppa Wrote:

(04-09-2019, 10:10 AM)Rstxbuck Wrote:

(04-09-2019, 10:08 AM)BigDroppa Wrote: Gays want to push it in your face and make you accept them. The creeps at the Silicon Valley companies treat the trannys and cross dressers like theyre unicorns that need to be cherished. White men need to be punished. Did Pence actually come out and say something about Mayor Pete ?

Just curious-do you have any gays in your everyday life who offend you w/ their lifestyle/actions/ are dragging down your neighborhood-or do you just react to what read on Breitbart?

None. Breitbart is a good site but that has nothing to do with my comment. 

Do you attend the gay pride parades?  Are they great for children ? Can we have straight pride parades or would that be hateful?

Ever been to Mardi Gras or spring break in Florida? That's basically a "straight pride" parade if I ever saw one.  I'd say taking kids to a gay pride parade isn't the best idea-just like taking them to a nightclub or Mardi Gras isn't a good idea.