(09-30-2020, 11:36 AM)Alabuckeye Wrote:

(09-30-2020, 11:17 AM)Fotownbuckeye Wrote: Stop being a baby zig!  You should just quit!  SMDH - the ignorance of some on here is amazing.

Honestly, I feel for you zig and I hope it goes well.

Fotown....can you give me your opinion on how teachers are different than any other group that has been working in public since March?

Before I answer let me explain my own level of "fear"

I do not fear getting sick.  Honestly I believe I had Covid in early March but brushed it off as a simple cold.  Had all the symptoms that would now have me in quarantine for 14 days.  Had me on my ass for about 4 days.    
I'm not a mask Nazi and didn't wear one until is was required - honestly don't feel a mask does anything.  I do however wear one as required now and I understand how it keeps the masses "calm".

I don't wan't to take away from anyone on the front line.  All essential workers are putting it on the line daily and should be commended

As for educators -
Simple
Daily Exposure and Potential Exposure 
  
Initially the guidelines for safe distance was 6 feet for 15 minutes. - if that was broken you needed to go into quarantine and be tested.
That has now been amended to 4 feet for 90 minutes.  I see about 75 kids a day for 3 hours at a time (not all at once obviously).  The amount of time that I am within 3-6 feet of students is on average 4+ hours a day.

To keep it simple - 
Lets say I have 75 students 
Each day those students have contact with:
Other kids in the building  - lets say 97
Family members - lets say 3 

That's 100 people a day per kid or 7500 potential carriers daily that I come into contact with. 

Now do the math on each individual that comes into contact with a students immediate circle (parents, friends etc), then factor in that High School age kids know everything and don't believe they can be infected.  You soon end up with a number around Ohio Stadiums attendance. 

This is daily.  Not for a month - every day.  

Now you can argue that it is potentially the same for other lines of work.  I would argue that those lines do not have the daily potential for increased exposure because of the numbers of people they interact with.    

With that said - I do not fear getting it.  I go to work daily and do my job.  I don't try to get out of it (regardless of what board teacher hating dip shits think).

What I do fear is my family getting sick because I was exposed taking care of your family.

How can you extrapolate out the number of people that a teacher could potentially be exposed to, and not a nurse, not a grocery clerk, not a restaurant waiter, not a gas station attendant, and on and on and on?

(09-30-2020, 11:48 AM)3rdgensooner Wrote:

(09-30-2020, 11:36 AM)Alabuckeye Wrote:

(09-30-2020, 11:17 AM)Fotownbuckeye Wrote: Stop being a baby zig!  You should just quit!  SMDH - the ignorance of some on here is amazing.

Honestly, I feel for you zig and I hope it goes well.

Fotown....can you give me your opinion on how teachers are different than any other group that has been working in public since March?

I'm seeing this and I'm just baffled. The reaction is far over the top from any other occupation I've seen. It's not going to be no risk. Others are at clearly higher risk and have been at work the whole time. Data coming out from open schools appears to be showing no higher danger or less than the community at large. 
Go to work teachers. The people you are complaining to are working that's why you aren't getting much sympathy.

Fotownâ€s rant not getting quite the traction he was looking for. Zig has been steadfast in his want to serve his students. Zig is not alone. Sadly there are more Fotowns. There are Fotown in administration. This is quite a conundrum from a sector that is so willing to lean in on privilege. 

Fair to say most here donâ€t agree that there is white privilege, and I disagree. I donâ€t think those same disagree that there is privilege in society, looks, brains, socioeconomic, etc. There is no mistaking those teachers unwilling to return to in person teaching are coming from a position of privilege not held by so many of the families that they teach. Stable income, without putting forth their most productive effort. 

Note, I am not talking effort in general as there is no doubt hybrid learning takes more effort. Hybrid educators should be lauded. Virtual is harder to effective, but hardly takes more effort. 

I think there will be huge jumps in virtual learning competency from so many thrown into it. There will be success stories. Like Peleton replacing live cycle class, master teachers presenting lessons with competent TAs following up in person provide an opportunity. There are teachers that can deliver great on line lessons. Why limit them to a class of 25 when there is less personal interaction. You could have a whole district streaming that one teacherâ€s lesson. The longer teachers check out for, more solitions will be sought. That said, I would hate to be a parent of K-3 or 4. I would probably punt on the year and have them repeat the grade and reset their educational path. 

There will be a ton of data to work through.

To add, after reading Fotownâ€s most recent post. I am far from a teacher hater, just the attitudes of some. Secondly, it sounds like you are back, so much of this discussion doesnâ€t even apply to you. Quite the opposite as you are leaning in.

Other states are not in the same situation as major districts in NC are pushing the can down the road, not because of lack of a plan, but lack of faculty support.

I also find the 4ft and 90 minutes problematic. When guidance went from 6ft for 10 minutes to 15 minutes we made no changes and held to the 10 minute standard. 4 ft and 90 minutes means a teacher should be able to stay out of contact tracing. It doesnâ€t seem in line with CDC nor keep teachers safe. I would definitely see how that could anger teachers.

(09-30-2020, 12:26 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: How can you extrapolate out the number of people that a teacher could potentially be exposed to, and not a nurse, not a grocery clerk, not a restaurant waiter, not a gas station attendant, and on and on and on?

Why I said "you could do this for anyone" 

I would think its hard to argue against the daily exposure is much higher than most jobs.

(09-30-2020, 12:46 PM)Erhino Wrote: To add, after reading Fotownâ€s most recent post. I am far from a teacher hater, just the attitudes of some. Secondly, it sounds like you are back, so much of this discussion doesnâ€t even apply to you. Quite the opposite as you are leaning in.

Other states are not in the same situation as major districts in NC are pushing the can down the road, not because of lack of a plan, but lack of faculty support.

I also find the 4ft and 90 minutes problematic. When guidance went from 6ft for 10 minutes to 15 minutes we made no changes and held to the 10 minute standard. 4 ft and 90 minutes means a teacher should be able to stay out of contact tracing. It doesnâ€t seem in line with CDC nor keep teachers safe. I would definitely see how that could anger teachers.

Perhaps don't generalize and lump all teachers in the "we hate to work" "lazy" section.

You know just enough to be dangerous.

It's a no win essentially.  We used the send home approach last year and the work was poor and little learning occurred.    Kids have to wear those masks at all time, tracing is super important, and distance and so forth of upmost importance.

(09-30-2020, 12:47 PM)Fotownbuckeye Wrote:

(09-30-2020, 12:26 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: How can you extrapolate out the number of people that a teacher could potentially be exposed to, and not a nurse, not a grocery clerk, not a restaurant waiter, not a gas station attendant, and on and on and on?

Why I said "you could do this for anyone" 

I would think its hard to argue against the daily exposure is much higher than most jobs.

It's much higher than my job.  I can work from home.  So I don't compare to my job.  I compare to my son, who worked ChickFila 10 hours a day this summer.  Or a Walmart cashier or personal shopper for 8 hours a day.  

Risks are present, noone is discounting that.  What is being questioned is WHY are teachers perceived as being at MORE risk....that question has not been answered.

Ok. Virtual learning can be successful if schools and teachers used April to August to plan and train. Itâ€s different and has new challenges that are hard to predict. Itâ€s a different way of instruction that very few teachers have experience. We rely on best practices from years of experience. Those best practices are not effective. So basically, in 5 months technology, curriculum, training and a complete redesign of instruction had to happen. I tell my teachers to adapt or leave. There are no excuses when kids are involved. Sacrifices have to be made. I accepted a 5th section of students instead of my normal 4 classes. That puts me at 140 students instead of 110 (my usual limit).

It is not fun. Student connections are not easy but necessary. We chose a hybrid synchronous model. So we are talking to students online and in person. Itâ€s like Iâ€m teaching a Brady Bunch screen. We had 60% of our 2800 students pick remote learning. AP kids are even more remote.

I canâ€t imagine elementary issues. That would be a nightmare. But 7-12, itâ€s all about planning, training, attitude. Thank God we have no unions in Texas. They would just get in the way.


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(10-01-2020, 10:08 PM)Georgem80 Wrote: Ok. Virtual learning can be successful if schools and teachers used April to August to plan and train. Itâ€s different and has new challenges that are hard to predict. Itâ€s a different way of instruction that very few teachers have experience. We rely on best practices from years of experience. Those best practices are not effective.  So basically, in 5 months technology, curriculum, training and a complete redesign of instruction had to happen. I tell my teachers to adapt or leave. There are no excuses when kids are involved. Sacrifices have to be made. I accepted a 5th section of students instead of my normal 4 classes.  That puts me at 140 students instead of 110 (my usual limit).

It is not fun. Student connections are not easy but necessary.  We chose a hybrid synchronous model.  So we are talking to students online and in person. Itâ€s like Iâ€m teaching a Brady Bunch screen. We had 60% of our 2800 students pick remote learning.  AP kids are even more remote. 

I canâ€t imagine elementary issues.  That would be a nightmare.  But 7-12, itâ€s all about planning, training, attitude.  Thank God we have no unions in Texas. They would just get in the way. 


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Welcome George!

(10-01-2020, 10:08 PM)Georgem80 Wrote: Ok. Virtual learning can be successful if schools and teachers used April to August to plan and train. Itâ€s different and has new challenges that are hard to predict. Itâ€s a different way of instruction that very few teachers have experience. We rely on best practices from years of experience. Those best practices are not effective.  So basically, in 5 months technology, curriculum, training and a complete redesign of instruction had to happen. I tell my teachers to adapt or leave. There are no excuses when kids are involved. Sacrifices have to be made. I accepted a 5th section of students instead of my normal 4 classes.  That puts me at 140 students instead of 110 (my usual limit).

It is not fun. Student connections are not easy but necessary.  We chose a hybrid synchronous model.  So we are talking to students online and in person. Itâ€s like Iâ€m teaching a Brady Bunch screen. We had 60% of our 2800 students pick remote learning.  AP kids are even more remote. 

I canâ€t imagine elementary issues.  That would be a nightmare.  But 7-12, itâ€s all about planning, training, attitude.  Thank God we have no unions in Texas. They would just get in the way. 


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