(05-29-2019, 03:28 PM)cincydawg Wrote: So, evidence would be "specific documents, testimony, and other evidence", none of which has been linked by anyone here.
Does said evidence exist in public, or not?
Or is all of this based on inference, speculation, what someone claimed, what has not been leaked, and biased wishful "analysis"?
The DoJ and FBI apparently claim the FISA process was entirely legal and above board. Â Is there clear evidence they are lying? Â Or do we just somehow "know" they are?
For reasons only known to you, you trust people suspected of illegal behavior are being honest when the deny doing anything illegal.
FICTION: The DOJ and FBIÂ claim the FISA process was entirely legal and above board.
FACT: DOJ abd FBI officials involved in the FISA application/warrant (in question) claim the process was entirely legal.
FACT: The current AG questions if the FISA application process was entirely legal.
(05-29-2019, 03:42 PM)cincydawg Wrote: I'm not looking for "reading" on more conjecture, but solid evidence, and links thereto.
Plenty of folks have opinions, often based on very very thin "evidence" and conjecture.
I gather from this "discussion" that the actual evidence is not linkable.
There links available in this thread alone, not to mention other threads on this topic. You should check them out.
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I don't trust anyone with a political angle here, that should be clear. I repeatedly say I DO NOT KNOW if this was legal, or not.
And NO ONE has referred to any evidence it was not legal. Lack of evidence means it's not clear, which is why Barr is investigating. It MAY have been illegal, or not entirely according to policy, or it may have been fine. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out which.
Absent evidence, I withhold judgment, instead of engaging in wishful thinking.
(05-29-2019, 04:06 PM)cincydawg Wrote: I don't trust anyone with a political angle here, that should be clear. Â I repeatedly say I DO NOT KNOW if this was legal, or not.
And NO ONE has referred to any evidence it was not legal. Lack of evidence means it's not clear, which is why Barr is investigating. Â It MAY have been illegal, or not entirely according to policy, or it may have been fine. Â It shouldn't be that hard to figure out which.
Absent evidence, I withhold judgment, instead of engaging in wishful thinking.
Your comments show you haven't taken the time to read the links and your knowledge isn't much more than regurgitating NPR.
I will repeatedly say... there are links with just the information, eg testimony or court documents.
I suggest you check those out... instead of engaging in the wishful thinking you claim you don't do.
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I don't see any links to anything except speculation and guessing.
Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Kathleen Kavalec Less Redacted Memo ... https://www.scribd.com/document/40936400...acted-Memo
In her typed summary, Kavalec wrote Steele told her the Russians had constructed a “technical/human operation run out of Moscow... do hacking and recruiting. Payments to those recruited are made out of the Russian Consulate in Miami.†Kavalec debunked that assertion in a bracketed comment: “It is important to note that there is no Russian consulate in Miami.â€
Kavalec, two days later and before the FISA warrant was issued, forwarded her typed summary to other government officials. Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.)... confirmed with U.S. officials that Kavalec's memo was forwarded to the FBI in the Oct. 13, 2016, email. https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/...re-flagged
The memo was allegedly withheld from the IG but was released with a FOIA request. Regardless, the FBI making false declarations to the FISC is a crime and the warrant... illegally obtained.
(05-29-2019, 05:31 PM)cincydawg Wrote: I don't see any links to anything except speculation and guessing.
Nellie Ohr's testimony transcript is speculation and guessing? I'll assume everything you read, including sworn testimony, FISC rulings, work history, written memos etc, will be considered speculation and guessing.
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Her testimony is just that, but I see nothing in it about FISA warrants.
I don't even see anything in her testimony that can't be explained away as a non-crime.
(05-29-2019, 06:00 PM)cincydawg Wrote: Her testimony is just that, but I see nothing in it about FISA warrants. Â
I don't even see anything in her testimony that can't be explained away as a non-crime.
This thread was not about the FISA warrant process... it is about Nellie Ohr creating the dossier, not Steele. Your FISA legality discussion was a sidebar.
Nevertheless, a link to the Kavalec memo is now posted.
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(05-29-2019, 05:52 PM)BoyGenius Wrote: Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Kathleen Kavalec Less Redacted Memo ... https://www.scribd.com/document/40936400...acted-Memo
In her typed summary, Kavalec wrote Steele told her the Russians had constructed a “technical/human operation run out of Moscow... do hacking and recruiting. Payments to those recruited are made out of the Russian Consulate in Miami.†Kavalec debunked that assertion in a bracketed comment: “It is important to note that there is no Russian consulate in Miami.â€
Kavalec, two days later and before the FISA warrant was issued, forwarded her typed summary to other government officials. Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.)... confirmed with U.S. officials that Kavalec's memo was forwarded to the FBI in the Oct. 13, 2016, email. https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/...re-flagged
The memo was allegedly withheld from the IG but was released with a FOIA request. Regardless, the FBI making false declarations to the FISC is a crime and the warrant... illegally obtained.
So, this woman wrote about some Russian hacking operation. Or something.
She sent her note to the FBI two days before the FISA warrant was issued.
How does this relate to the FISA warrant application? It appeared two days ahead of it? So?
Where did the FBI make a false statement to FISC?
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I probably am not smart enough to connect the dots in all of this. I see hand waving and associations trying to be made between A and B, but those associations could have other logical rational explanations and be in fact unrelated to anything.
I hope Barr can make all this more clear to simpletons like me. This thread - to me - if LOOK HERE LOOK THERE LOOK OVER YONDER - and when I ask for some straight forward evidence for anything. I get what appears to me to be distracting posts unrelated to my questions.
Fortunately others here have it all figured out and we can expect bombshells, or not, even that isn't clear.
(05-29-2019, 06:06 PM)cincydawg Wrote: (05-29-2019, 05:52 PM)BoyGenius Wrote: Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Kathleen Kavalec Less Redacted Memo ... https://www.scribd.com/document/40936400...acted-Memo
In her typed summary, Kavalec wrote Steele told her the Russians had constructed a “technical/human operation run out of Moscow... do hacking and recruiting. Payments to those recruited are made out of the Russian Consulate in Miami.†Kavalec debunked that assertion in a bracketed comment: “It is important to note that there is no Russian consulate in Miami.â€
Kavalec, two days later and before the FISA warrant was issued, forwarded her typed summary to other government officials. Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.)... confirmed with U.S. officials that Kavalec's memo was forwarded to the FBI in the Oct. 13, 2016, email. https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/...re-flagged
The memo was allegedly withheld from the IG but was released with a FOIA request. Regardless, the FBI making false declarations to the FISC is a crime and the warrant... illegally obtained.
So, this woman wrote about some Russian hacking operation. Or something.
She sent her note to the FBI two days before the FISA warrant was issued.
How does this relate to the FISA warrant application? It appeared two days ahead of it? So?
Where did the FBI make a false statement to FISC?
Surely, you must be joking? Read about the FISA process and what's required. Then, read the footnote on page 15 of the FISA application.
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Ah, yes, the response is "You have to read more about this and that", somewhere.
The Steele "dossier" almost certainly is false on many points, but perhaps not all of them. I don't know what the FBI presented to the FISC to get the warrants. They may well have included other information, and only partially relied on parts of the Steele document.
Either this is simple enough for me to understand in clear terms, or it isn't. Thus far, it isn't. I see deflection after deflection and irrelevancy after irrelevancy, which of course is hardly unexpected.
You don't know what's presented in the FISA application because you have bothered to look at it. And the rest of your burfle is based on your wishful thinking and speculation about the FISA procedure, to the point where you think presenting false evidence to obtain a warrant is much ado about nothing.
After this conversation, I doubt you will ever understand. So far... I see a man who is too lazy to read something other than a 300 word NPR op-ed that confirms his bias.
Bruce Ohr Received $28k Bonus During Work on Dossier… http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/...052219.pdf
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