Making America Great Again

[3rdgensooner]

No doubt alcohol is in many ways worse than marijuana. Both used responsibly I donâ€t have a problem with. A lot of people struggle with that.
Harder drugs canâ€t be used responsibly.

[cincydawg]

Harder drugs canâ€t be used responsibly.

I have "read" that some folks are addicted to heroin and can use without outward symptoms.  The "self medicate" at a lower level and don't generally get a real high.  I don't know if this is true, I'm asking.  

Heroin was developed as an antidote to morphine addiction, which was wide spread at the time.  I understand morphine was widely available late 19th century in various concoctions (preFDA).  A lot of women got hooked because they were bored, in effect, or so I'm led to believe.

I was curious what the next "least hard drug" after MJ might be (outside the cannbinol family).

Codeine?

[Hightop77]

No one on here maintained that marijuana is harmless.   And it's well known alcohol far worse in terms of harming health and being addictive.  This is the point.

Only by people who fall for the propaganda disseminated by the legalization lobby groups.

That is absolutely a desperate post because you are wrong.   Tell me again about the AA type clinics for marijuana use or why don't you discount the fact alcohol is one of the top five addictive substances known to man.  You are really failing here.

Nope.  It is an absolute fact.  What most people believe about cannabis including the canned talking points you are reciting is nothing but propaganda distributed by the people who make money off of it.  As I said, it is as absurd as the cigarette ads from 60 years ago and yet people fall for it again.  As the saying goes, there is a sucker born every minute.

[cincydawg]

Everyone here agrees the deficit if a problem.  Many of "us" focus on who is to blame, which is fine I suppose, but it doesn't lead to any practicable solutions or remedies, it leaves the problem extant, no matter who you blame.

I know some think if Trump is reelected he'll do something, but I personally suspect he would not, even if the Republicans win back the House and have a supermajority in the Senate, beyond some minor trimming around the edges.  And the prospect for a supermajority is slim, and of course if it happened folks would blame RINOs if big spending cuts didn't happen.

So, any substantive real action appears to be unlikely, putting it mildly.  Folks will continue to blame whoever they don't like and defend whoever they do, and the problem will remain and get worse, MUCH worse, over the next decade.

The "handwaving" solutions are simply not going to happen any more than I'm likely to win the lottery (and I don't buy tickets).

[ScarletHayes]

I could be wrong on this, but I think the actual smoke from weed is much worse than that from cigarettes, simply due to the fact there's no filter on the end of a joint.  Then again, on the flip side, no one smokes joints at a rate of "2 packs a day" either.  Sooo... it probably evens out to an extent.  

Alcohol being prone to make you hurt another person (bar fight, car wreck, etc...) at a higher rate than weed is pretty clear and obvious.

[Hightop77]

Alcohol being prone to make you hurt another person (bar fight, car wreck, etc...) at a higher rate than weed is pretty clear and obvious.

Except the vast majority of people consume alcohol publicly with complete responsibility.  I go out a couple of nights a week, have a couple of beers in pubs with a lot of other people and I don't see any fights.  The statistic I pulled up from a state that went legalization indicates cannabis is going to be a much bigger problem with driving than alcohol.

[cincydawg]

Cigarette filters don't really do much filtering.

[stxbuck]

I think Libertarians would respect states' rights to enforce their own drug laws.  I mean let's face it, weed isn't gonna hurt anyone.

I will save that argument for another day but it isn't true at all.  There is actually substantial damage both long and short term and legalization would increase usage drastically.

Alcohol is FAAAAAAARRRRRRR worse, and it's legal.  I have yet to see weed start anything resembling a bar brawl.

Yep. Alcohol is incredibly addictive. Weed is not.  Alcohol has virtually no medical value.  Weed mkst definitely does.  What it comes down to is this: HT likes alcohol, so it's ok for all of us.  HT doesn't like weed, so it's not ok for any of us.

This. Which is the essence of the populist/Trump pumper/old man get off my lawn political pov.

[stxbuck]

Harder drugs canâ€t be used responsibly.

I have "read" that some folks are addicted to heroin and can use without outward symptoms.  The "self medicate" at a lower level and don't generally get a real high.  I don't know if this is true, I'm asking.  

Heroin was developed as an antidote to morphine addiction, which was wide spread at the time.  I understand morphine was widely available late 19th century in various concoctions (preFDA).  A lot of women got hooked because they were bored, in effect, or so I'm led to believe.

I was curious what the next "least hard drug" after MJ might be (outside the cannbinol family).

Codeine?

Probably Ecstasy/MDMA, if we are talking pure form. Meth is considered the most addictive-sometimes addiction occurs after one usage, then opioids. A lot of the junkies in SW Ohio are switching back to meth from opioids, so the heroin #s are falling somewhat.

[zigbee]

I think Libertarians would respect states' rights to enforce their own drug laws.  I mean let's face it, weed isn't gonna hurt anyone.

I will save that argument for another day but it isn't true at all.  There is actually substantial damage both long and short term and legalization would increase usage drastically.

Alcohol is FAAAAAAARRRRRRR worse, and it's legal.  I have yet to see weed start anything resembling a bar brawl.

Yep. Alcohol is incredibly addictive. Weed is not.  Alcohol has virtually no medical value.  Weed mkst definitely does.  What it comes down to is this: HT likes alcohol, so it's ok for all of us.  HT doesn't like weed, so it's not ok for any of us.

This. Which is the essence of the populist/Trump pumper/old man get off my lawn political pov.

True.   For HighTop to maintain weed is worse than alcohol is just laughable.   Can he without the tired old propaganda line tell us why there are no AA like programs for weed like alcohol OR can he address why weed is NOT addictive and alcohol obviously is as listed with heroin, nicotine, etc?  come on, that is just BS.

NO ONE  is saying it's good to smoke it.  NO ONE.  But to say alcohol is not as bad?   Laughable.

[dkeener67]

I think Libertarians would respect states' rights to enforce their own drug laws.  I mean let's face it, weed isn't gonna hurt anyone.

I will save that argument for another day but it isn't true at all.  There is actually substantial damage both long and short term and legalization would increase usage drastically.

Alcohol is FAAAAAAARRRRRRR worse, and it's legal.  I have yet to see weed start anything resembling a bar brawl.

Yep. Alcohol is incredibly addictive. Weed is not.  Alcohol has virtually no medical value.  Weed mkst definitely does.  What it comes down to is this: HT likes alcohol, so it's ok for all of us.  HT doesn't like weed, so it's not ok for any of us.

This. Which is the essence of the populist/Trump pumper/old man get off my lawn political pov.

Say what? Thatâ€s an off base generalization.

[stxbuck]

Alcohol being prone to make you hurt another person (bar fight, car wreck, etc...) at a higher rate than weed is pretty clear and obvious.

Except the vast majority of people consume alcohol publicly with complete responsibility.  I go out a couple of nights a week, have a couple of beers in pubs with a lot of other people and I don't see any fights.  The statistic I pulled up from a state that went legalization indicates cannabis is going to be a much bigger problem with driving than alcohol.

You are going out to normal, neighborhood/'nice' brewpubs or whatnot-not dance clubs or biker bars-that's where you see the problems from alcohol. There are a lot more DUIs/fights/trouble from Bud Light and kamikazes than Hispter Double Hop IPA and Blanton's, I would imagine. Volume clientele.

[ScarletHayes]

Get off my lawn types are just people that reeeeeally respect private property rights.  True libertarians.

[stxbuck]

I will save that argument for another day but it isn't true at all.  There is actually substantial damage both long and short term and legalization would increase usage drastically.

Alcohol is FAAAAAAARRRRRRR worse, and it's legal.  I have yet to see weed start anything resembling a bar brawl.

Yep. Alcohol is incredibly addictive. Weed is not.  Alcohol has virtually no medical value.  Weed mkst definitely does.  What it comes down to is this: HT likes alcohol, so it's ok for all of us.  HT doesn't like weed, so it's not ok for any of us.

This. Which is the essence of the populist/Trump pumper/old man get off my lawn political pov.

Say what? Thatâ€s an off base generalization.

There is definitely a populist pov that is "I'm pissed off and don't like stuff that isn't like me!!!". Is this all that drives voting behavior-of course not. Is it a real political pov-and one that Trump successfully catered to in his campaign-absolutely.
I'm not generalizing-I'm identifying a specific mode of thinking-a mode that apparently makes you uncomfortable.

[stxbuck]

Get off my lawn types are just people that reeeeeally respect private property rights.  True libertarians.

True libertarians tell the cops to get the hell off their lawn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!