(12-05-2019, 02:31 PM)BoyGenius Wrote: (12-05-2019, 01:37 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: (12-05-2019, 01:27 PM)BoyGenius Wrote: (12-05-2019, 01:14 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: (12-05-2019, 12:58 PM)BoyGenius Wrote: Say what you mean and mean what you say... thanks for being direct.
Make no mistake, the DA represented Travon and told his story.
The courts do not operate on rumor, hearsay, innuendo, hypothetical or "what-if" scenarios etc.
Zimmerman was found not guilty. Why do you distrust the jury's verdict?
The jury only had the facts that were given to them and the version of the situation provided by Zimmerman only. My point, since the first page is that one small change in the order of the confrontation, the entire tone of the story changes, and Zimmerman isn't painted as the victim.
Honestly, it's pretty astonishing, given what a moronic douchbag he is, along with the multiple examples of him making really stupid decisions, that so many people bought his story hook, line and sinker.
Zimmerman was only allowed to present his story? What was the DA doing? If true, the DA was incompetent and you should be angry about that, not the jury's verdict.
From where did the DA get Trayvon's version of the story since Trayvon was, you know, dead.
The DA speaks for the victim but in this case, since Travon is, you know, dead, and cannot testify, you conclude GZ must be lying and thus guilty of murder. That is a fantastically shortsighted perspective...
Not at all. The assertion made by stxbuck was the since Zimmerman was getting his head beat against the ground, he MUST have been defending himself and deserved to be found not guilty. I just pointed out that you have to assume that Zimmerman must be telling the truth about their encounter to assume that Zimmerman was defending himself, because you can't make that determination based solely on the fact that Trayvon was apparently winning the fight. Zimmerman very easily could have been the aggressor, very easily could have escalated the situation by pulling a weapon before Trayvon laid a hand on him  (he's proven to make idiotic decisions like that, including the ones he made that night) and put Trayvon in a position to defend himself.
I've added, based on my own observations, that Zimmerman is almost viewed as heroic around here...which is an incredibly odd view.
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Virtually everyone thinks he's an idiot. So that's false.Â
That was an awfully long fight for a guy with a drawn gun before firing a single shot. That's so unlikely a thinking person will discard that scenario as too improbable.
(12-05-2019, 03:04 PM)3rdgensooner Wrote: Virtually everyone thinks he's an idiot. So that's false.Â
That was an awfully long fight for a guy with a drawn gun before firing a single shot. That's so unlikely a thinking person will discard that scenario as too improbable.
Unless he didn't want to use the gun, which is possible since he was yelling for help. That still doesn't mean he didn't have the gun out before Trayvon did anything. As I keep saying, we'll never know.   A lot of things can go wrong when you're an armed wannabe cop/hero moron like Zimmerman who's following a young, prideful, testosterone-fueled thug like Trayvon. Â
Everyone likes to look at things only from Zimmman's point of view because "Trayvon is a thug who would probably be dead or in prison by his 22nd birthday anyway", but Zimmerman is the one chasing around a stranger at night, while carrying a gun. That in itself would be viewed by a lot of people, me included, as a threat. Trayvon had EVERY right to confront guy following him. Was Trayvon going into the situation with the intent of kicking Zimmerman's a$$? Maybe. Probably. But if Zimmerman pulled out his gun solely because Travyon was approaching him, then you can't call Zimmerman a victim. He created most of the problem.
(12-05-2019, 03:01 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: Not at all. The assertion made by stxbuck was the since Zimmerman was getting his head beat against the ground, he MUST have been defending himself and deserved to be found not guilty. I just pointed out that you have to assume that Zimmerman must be telling the truth about their encounter to assume that Zimmerman was defending himself, because you can't make that determination based solely on the fact that Trayvon was apparently winning the fight. Zimmerman very easily could have been the aggressor, very easily could have escalated the situation by pulling a weapon before Trayvon laid a hand on him  (he's proven to make idiotic decisions like that, including the ones he made that night) and put Trayvon in a position to defend himself.
I've added, based on my own observations, that Zimmerman is almost viewed as heroic around here...which is an incredibly odd view.
"What if" scenarios do not cut it in court. Yes, the jury heard all the evidence the DA wanted to present, specifically their version of what happened based on evidence, eye witness testimony, phone calls, etc etc etc.
Your whole argument is Travon is dead and thus we don't know who escalated the encounter. The jury knows.
But, why does "who escalated" matter to you? The only logical conclusion... GZ was found not guilty.
If GZ was serving 15 to LIFE... we wouldn't be discussing this topic because the outcome would have been what you wanted.
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12-05-2019, 03:47 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2019, 03:48 PM by 3rdgensooner.)
Yeah you can what if stupid nonsensical scenarios all you want. If you're an idiot you actually will. Pointless.Â
What if Zimmerman ran a couple of hundred yards down to Martin's house dragged him back at gunpoint punched himself in the face and bonked his own head on the sidewalk then shot Martin?
Everything Zimmerman said, because it's uncorroborated and unproven, is as hypothetical as my what-ifs. There are some facts that can be verified to be true: Trayvon made it home and then left to find Zimmerman.  Trayvon was shot at close range. Zimmerman was having his head hit against the ground. Trayvon is dead, for example. We have absolutely no way to verify any of the events leading up to Trayvon being on top of Zimmerman. The entire exchange from the time Trayvon let his house and encountered Zimmeman to the time Zimmerman was on his back, could have all been BS.
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12-05-2019, 04:26 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2019, 04:27 PM by BigDroppa.)
Zimmerfuk tracked down a person with a weapon. Hes the kinda guy you don't want chasing people with guns in their hands. Just like a guy the old man at 7-11 chasing down and harassing drivers in parked cars in handicap spots.
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They were both idiots.
To bad both didn't end up the same
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(12-05-2019, 02:38 PM)Brutus Buckeye Wrote: He was pretty easy to root for, if you've ever been on the receiving end of brute black violence. I suppose if you whittle everything down to a person's skin color, one person is easy to root for over another.
(12-05-2019, 04:14 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: Everything Zimmerman said, because it's uncorroborated and unproven, is as hypothetical as my what-ifs.Â
link? Why do you insist on dismissing the jury verdict? Clearly, they heard all the evidence.
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(12-05-2019, 04:14 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: Everything Zimmerman said, because it's uncorroborated and unproven, is as hypothetical as my what-ifs. There are some facts that can be verified to be true: Trayvon made it home and then left to find Zimmerman.  Trayvon was shot at close range. Zimmerman was having his head hit against the ground. Trayvon is dead, for example. We have absolutely no way to verify any of the events leading up to Trayvon being on top of Zimmerman. The entire exchange from the time Trayvon let his house and encountered Zimmeman to the time Zimmerman was on his back, could have all been BS. Then why argue against the killing? You are saying you really don't know anything about it.
Make America Honest Again
(12-05-2019, 06:37 PM)zigbee Wrote: (12-05-2019, 04:14 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: Everything Zimmerman said, because it's uncorroborated and unproven, is as hypothetical as my what-ifs. There are some facts that can be verified to be true: Trayvon made it home and then left to find Zimmerman.  Trayvon was shot at close range. Zimmerman was having his head hit against the ground. Trayvon is dead, for example. We have absolutely no way to verify any of the events leading up to Trayvon being on top of Zimmerman. The entire exchange from the time Trayvon let his house and encountered Zimmeman to the time Zimmerman was on his back, could have all been BS. Then why argue against the killing? You are saying you really don't know anything about it.
Off the top of my head, pitch ccuriously ignores the prosecutor misconduct... intentionally falsifying an affidavit; deliberately withholding evidence favorable to GZ. Considering his extensive comments on this subject, you would think he would be upset. Instead, he's arguing "what if" scenarios.
Then, there is the law... even if GZ verbally provoked TM, TM jumped on top of him and beat him, broke his nose, bloodied his eyes, persisted in his attack and GZ couldn†t protect himself, GZ has the right to shoot the attacker in self defense.
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