Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
As we approach (not) Jesus' birthday...
#1
I thought it would be a good time to address something I saw referenced in another recent thread:  God's love, grace and mercy extended to mankind(Jn 3:16)

I wanted to post some thoughts (transcript of a podcast) by a well-known "atheist" - Sam Harris.

Nine  million children die every year before they reach the age of 5.  Picture an Asian tsunami of the sort we saw in 2004 that killed a quarter of a million people. one of those every 10 days, killing only children under 5. Twenty four thousand a day; a thousand an hour, 17 a minute.  That means before I can get to the end of the sentence, some number of children will have died in terror and agony.  Think of the parents of these children.  Think of the fact that most of them, men and women, believe in god and are praying, at THIS moment for their children to be spared... and their prayers will go unanswered. Any god who would allow children by the millions to suffer and die in this way, and their parents to grieve in this way, either can do nothing to help them or doesn't care to.  He is, therefore, either impotent or evil.  


Worse than that, most of these people will be going to hell because they're praying to the wrong god. Think about that.  Through no fault of their own, they were born into the wrong culture, where they got the wrong theology and they missed the revelation.  There are 1.2 billion people in India at this moment, most of them are Hindus.  Most of them, therefore, polytheists.  No matter how good theses people are, they are doomed.  If you are praying to the monkey god Hanuman, you are doomed. You'll be tortured in hell for eternity.  Is there the slightest evidence for this?  No.  It just says to in Mark 9 or Matthew 13 and Revelation 14.  Perhaps you'll remember from The Lord of the Rings when the elves die, they go to Valenor, but can be reborn in middle earth.  I say that just as a point of comparison.  So, God created the cultural isolation of the Hindus.  He engineered the circumstances of their death in ignorance of revelation, then he created the penalty of this ignorance, which is an eternity of conscious torment in fire.  On the other hand, your run-of-the-mill serial killer in America, who spent his life raping and torturing children, need only to come to Jesus on death row.  And after a final meal of fried chicken, he's going to spend an eternity in heaven after death.  One thing should be crystal clear to you, this vision of life has absolutely nothing to do with moral accountability. 


We're told that God is loving and kind and just and intrinsically good, but when someone like me points out the rather obvious, compelling evidence that God is cruel and unjust, because he visits suffering on innocent people, on a scope and scale that would embarrass the most ambitious psychopath, we're told that God is 'mysterious'.  Who can understand God's will?  Yet this merely human understanding of God's will is what believers use to establish his goodness in the first place.  If something good happens to a Christian, he feels bliss while praying, or sees some positive change in his life and we're told that God is good.  But when children, by the tens of thousands, are torn from their parents' arms and drown, we're told that God is mysterious.  This is how you play tennis without the net.


And I want to suggest to you that it is not only tiresome, when otherwise intelligent people speak this way,  it is morally reprehensible.  This kind of faith is really the perfection of narcissism - God loves me, doncha know?  He cured me of my eczema.  He makes me feel so good while singing in church and, just when we had given up hope, he found a banker who was willing to reduce my mother's mortgage.  Given all this god of yours does not accomplish, in the lives of others. Given the misery that is being imposed on some helpless child at this instant, this kind of faith is obscene.  To think in this way is to fail to reason honestly or to care sufficiently about the suffering of other human beings.  And if God is loving and just and kind and he wanted to guide us morally with a book, why give us a book that supports slavery?  Why give us a book that admonishes us to kill people for imaginary crimes like witchcraft?  Of course, there's a way of not taking these questions to heart; god is not bound by moral duties. God doesn't have to be good. Whatever he commands is good. So when commands the Israelites to slaughter the Amalekites, that behavior becomes intrinsically good because he commanded it.  


This to me is the true horror of religion.  It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions what only lunatics could believe on their own.  If you wake up tomorrow morning thinking that saying a few latin words over pancakes is going to turn them into the body of Elivs Presley, you have lost your mind.  But if you think more or less the same thing about the body of Jesus, you're just a Catholic.  And I'm not the first person to notice it's a very strange sort of loving God who would make salvation depend on believing in him on bad evidence.  If you lived 2000 years ago, there was evidence galore.  He was just performing miracles, but apparently he got tired of being so helpful.  So now we all inherit this very heavy burden of the doctrines' implausibility and the effort to square it, with what we now know about the cosmos, and what we know about the all-too human origins of scripture, becomes more and more difficult.


I hate to break it to you, but Christianity is a cult of human sacrifice.  Christianity is not a religion that repudiates human sacrifice.  It is a religion that celebrates a single human sacrifice as though it were effective.  God so loved the world that he gave his only son.  John 3:16.  Jesus suffered the crucifixion so none need suffer hell...except those billions in India.  This doctrine is a stride.  A contemptible history of scientific ignorance religious barbarism.  We come from people who used to bury children under the foundations of buildings as offerings to their imaginary gods.  Just think about that.  In vast numbers of societies, people would bury children in post holes, thinking this would prevent an invisible being from knocking down their buildings.  These are the sorts of people who wrote the Bible. If there is a less moral, moral framework, I haven't heard of it.
“Censorship reflects society’s lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime.”

–Potter Stewart
Reply
#2
what's your point here?

If it's to bash Christianity......{yawn}......you do that every day.

If it's to mischaracterize Christianity......then well done......again....and again.....

You are so worried about something you don't think exists. How odd.
Reply
#3
(12-03-2019, 01:38 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: what's your point here?

If it's to bash Christianity......{yawn}......you do that every day.

If it's to mischaracterize Christianity......then well done......again....and again.....

You are so worried about something you don't think exists.  How odd.

It's very difficult to bite ones tongue when one sees the same baseless assertion (God is loving, merciful, graceful and moral) repeated over and over.  It would be like a poster regularly expressing his belief that, for example, Elvis is still alive.
“Censorship reflects society’s lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime.”

–Potter Stewart
Reply
#4
Mother Nature must be one tremendous bitch.
Reply
#5
(12-03-2019, 02:02 PM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(12-03-2019, 01:38 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: what's your point here?

If it's to bash Christianity......{yawn}......you do that every day.

If it's to mischaracterize Christianity......then well done......again....and again.....

You are so worried about something you don't think exists.  How odd.

It's very difficult to bite ones tongue when one sees the same baseless assertion (God is loving, merciful, graceful and moral) repeated over and over.  It would be like a poster regularly expressing his belief that, for example, Elvis is still alive.

I've known people that held what I felt were 'far out' beliefs.  I never felt the need to daily mock them.  It's really a bizarre approach to life.......
Reply
#6
Believe what you want or don't , But there is a place and an important one in this World for those that believe in a greater being call it what you want .
Millions of people across the globe credited this believe in many positive live changing ways. And its their " God" given right to do so for better or worse.

Your constant overbearing attack on this subject says a awful lot about you .
Reply
#7
Pitch is a fairly repugnant person, and as such most decent folk will be inclined to take the opposite position of whatever he is suggesting in most cases, including this one.
Reply
#8
(12-03-2019, 03:16 PM)TcSoup Wrote: Believe what you want or don't , But there is a place and an important one in this World for those that believe in a greater being call it what you want .
Millions of people across the globe credited this believe in many positive live changing ways. And its their " God" given right to do so for better or worse.

Your constant overbearing attack on this subject says a awful lot about you .

Sure, simply a belief in something, whether it's real or not, can have an impact on your life.  Muslim terrorists use their scriptural beliefs of martyrdom, combined with a promise of 70-something virgins,  as the inspiration to blow themselves up.  People pay good money to have tarot cards read and use that "reading" as inspiration to make positive change in their lives.  The reality is that we don't need spirits, ghosts, tarot cards, etc to look at our lives and make positive changes.
“Censorship reflects society’s lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime.”

–Potter Stewart
Reply
#9
Just tell me how we all got here and you'll be telling a far more unbelievable story than this is to you.
I'll wait for your answer.
Reply
#10
Let's work with a couple pieces of information here.

1) a-theists believe that there is no need for an external moral foundation.
2) Pitch has said here that Christianity is akin to 'believing Elvis is alive'. Most of us would agree that someone who believes that Elvis is alive has some serious mental issues with reality and ability to think rationally.
3) It is commonly held that mocking people who have mental issues is wrong.

What's the conclusion from that set of facts/information?

A bonus question.

1) Pitch doesn't believe in free will
2) Pitch says above that we can look into ourselves and make positive changes.

How can we make changes when we don't have the ability to exert free will......?
Reply
#11
Troll thread...but I'll let it stand for none other reason than it exposes the OP for what he is: troll.  One would have to be miserable to go to the extreme to mock other's beliefs. 

WITH THAT BEING SAID, Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, and Best Wishes to you all for a great time of the year and a great time for thanks to God for what we have and those we love and are blessed with in our lives.







MAGA
1
1
Reply
#12
(12-03-2019, 02:06 PM)Brutus Buckeye Wrote: Mother Nature must be one tremendous bitch.
Oh indeed she is. Nature is absolutely merciless. There are no gods of course. Even in the unlikely event there were they certainly wouldn't give a flying rat's ass about some hairless monkeys on one little miniscule speck in the Universe. Which is plainly obvious from observation of how nature works. Christianity is a problem for the world but somewhat benign compared to even more malignant religions like Islam and Hinduism. The misery caused by religion in the world is tremendous.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Dems using the Kavanaugh approach going after Gordon Sondland zigbee 1 69 11-27-2019, 07:54 PM
Last Post: ScarletHayes
  Happy Birthday "White Chocolate" P1tchblack 0 60 11-18-2019, 01:54 PM
Last Post: P1tchblack
  Cheeto Jesus "Fox News Worse than CNN" stxbuck 14 395 07-08-2019, 12:25 PM
Last Post: 3rdgensooner
  Happy Birthday lrrps21 2 205 06-14-2019, 11:40 AM
Last Post: lrrps21
  I represent the Messiah. I represent the Jesus and I am that Jesus. K9Buck 17 770 04-05-2019, 03:42 PM
Last Post: K9Buck
  Did Jesus exist before he was in Mary's womb? K9Buck 18 839 03-17-2019, 04:54 AM
Last Post: cincydawg

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread:
https://www.facebook.com/Zigbeenuthousecom-425755324858973/?modal=admin_todo_tour