Negotiating in China

[ChinaBuck]

An example...

We design hospitals as some of you know. We received a Design Brief from the client defining their needs by department/functional area. The major ones are numbered 1 - 14 and a collection of minor functions are listed in a final paragraph. All pretty clear.

We are working with a consultant that has a direct connection to the hospital. Their scope needs to match ours. But their numbered items don't match the clients, and are in a different order. Very very very confusing. And some items are not included. This is also not to mention that some of her information is wrong/incomplete. Anyway, I point out their info doesn't match the clients. I get immediate pushback, I stay on point, "we need to align with what the client gave us". "Oh no, not going to happen, the client doesn't know what they are doing, only I know." I say, "oh really? So that explains the wrong content?" Answer from her was, "I'm Chinese, you don't know either." (pro tip, I do know). Then she says, "you didn't follow the numbers either". "Oh really?" "Yes, you added numbers at the end". I answer, "I followed their numbers exactly, and I then numbered the minor items so we can track them later." She says, "oh, so you admit to changing their numbers?" I then say, "you have to be kidding me, I organized the information exactly as they had and then also enumerated the minor ones." She says, "so if you can change the numbers, I can then do whatever I want."

Rinse and repeat again and again for more than 2 hours. She didn't back down one iota. It's beyond all comprehension that she would stand there was such unmitigated gall. On, and I'm the presenter tomorrow. This is going to be a clusterfork. And nothing I can do. But I will call on her to help explain, best I can do. 

At times, this is how negotiation gets done here. Never admit to being the slightest bit wrong. Bully your way to victory.

[Brutus Buckeye]

What percentage of their population are proficient in martial arts?

[Alabuckeye]

I laughed out loud Brutus.

China....I assume this consultant is the hospitals hired project rep?

[ChinaBuck]

I laughed out loud Brutus.

China....I assume this consultant is the hospitals hired project rep?

This is correct. The client is new at building hospitals, but their operation is run by docs. Experts in the field. But apparently they know less than her. 


And the rep is a civil engineer by education. This explains why she knows everything medical.

[ChinaBuck]

What percentage of their population are proficient in martial arts?

They all learn a few basic moves in HS phys ed class, but it is a little surprising how little they actually know. But then, maybe I watch too many movies.

[ScarletHayes]

The payoff line is at the end.  It's only a min long.  Definitely applies here.  Human pride...  ya gotta love it.  

[ChinaBuck]

Ooooooohhhhhhh, good gawd, you nailed it.

[zigbee]

In the end, who loses?  Probably the patients.

[ChinaBuck]

In the end, who loses?  Probably the patients.

Exactly................!!! 

She is so jacked up on her own perceived power, she has totally lost sight of what's really important. 

By the way, great emoji!


I'm guessing Keener could totally relate to my situation being the good doctor that he is.

[lrrps21]

In the end, who loses?  Probably the patients.

Exactly................!!! 

She is so jacked up on her own perceived power, she has totally lost sight of what's really important. 

By the way, great emoji!


I'm guessing Keener could totally relate to my situation being the good doctor that he is.

Sounds like the broads in China are as bad as they are in the good old West. Something tells me the 'saving face' burfle is in play, too. We all know how Asians and saving face goes.

Whatever happened to the woman out on disability? Did she ever return?

[ChinaBuck]

In the end, who loses?  Probably the patients.

Exactly................!!! 

She is so jacked up on her own perceived power, she has totally lost sight of what's really important. 

By the way, great emoji!


I'm guessing Keener could totally relate to my situation being the good doctor that he is.

Sounds like the broads in China are as bad as they are in the good old West. Something tells me the 'saving face' burfle is in play, too. We all know how Asians and saving face goes.

Whatever happened to the woman out on disability? Did she ever return?

Yeah, definitely about saving face. Iâ€m pretty sure she realized she screwed up just a few minutes into our conversation, this would before I noticed the mess she created. So she went into attack mode so as to not having to defend herself or, just say, oops, I need to fix this. 

so I just got home. Itâ€s 2:30 am. I just spent three hours cleaning up the mess she created. 

thanks for reminding about my wayward employee. Iâ€ll share that story soon. Itâ€s still evolving.

[lrrps21]

In the end, who loses?  Probably the patients.

Exactly................!!! 

She is so jacked up on her own perceived power, she has totally lost sight of what's really important. 

By the way, great emoji!


I'm guessing Keener could totally relate to my situation being the good doctor that he is.

Sounds like the broads in China are as bad as they are in the good old West. Something tells me the 'saving face' burfle is in play, too. We all know how Asians and saving face goes.

Whatever happened to the woman out on disability? Did she ever return?

Yeah, definitely about saving face. Iâ€m pretty sure she realized she screwed up just a few minutes into our conversation, this would before I noticed the mess she created. So she went into attack mode so as to not having to defend herself or, just say, oops, I need to fix this. 

so I just got home. Itâ€s 2:30 am. I just spent three hours cleaning up the mess she created. 

thanks for reminding about my wayward employee. Iâ€ll share that story soon. Itâ€s still evolving.

It helps to have traveled to Asia and to be around the Asian community. If I have learn anything it's how Asians will do anything to save face. 

I was wondering what happened. I'm glad you'll post about it.

[ChinaBuck]

Iâ€ve spent a long time in China but even I sometimes donâ€t recognize the value in saving face. Being the Midwest boy that I am, I, while usually polite, am a bit too direct sometimes. Itâ€s OK with people you know well, but doesnâ€t work well in a more public environment.

[ScarletHayes]

Iâ€ve spent a long time in China but even I sometimes donâ€t recognize the value in saving face. Being the Midwest boy that I am, I, while usually polite, am a bit too direct sometimes. Itâ€s OK with people you know well, but doesnâ€t work well in a more public environment.