Kurds, Turkey and Syria

[Hightop77]

Boy genius asked a question pages ago.....why now?  Why not in a more measured way once the isis fighters were dealt with that the Kurds were guarding?  Why not in a way that also protects the Kurds?

So you would get into a serious war to do that?  It could easily escalate into that.  I am not saying you are wrong, just trying to gauge what you want to do.

Serious war with whom?  Turkey?

That's right.

[Alabuckeye]

Boy genius asked a question pages ago.....why now?  Why not in a more measured way once the isis fighters were dealt with that the Kurds were guarding?  Why not in a way that also protects the Kurds?

So you would get into a serious war to do that?  It could easily escalate into that.  I am not saying you are wrong, just trying to gauge what you want to do.

Serious war with whom?  Turkey?

That's right.

So, your position is that Trump did this to avoid war with Turkey?  Well.....thatâ€s the first Iâ€ve heard of anything of that

[Hightop77]

Boy genius asked a question pages ago.....why now?  Why not in a more measured way once the isis fighters were dealt with that the Kurds were guarding?  Why not in a way that also protects the Kurds?

So you would get into a serious war to do that?  It could easily escalate into that.  I am not saying you are wrong, just trying to gauge what you want to do.

Serious war with whom?  Turkey?

That's right.

So, your position is that Trump did this to avoid war with Turkey?  Well.....thatâ€s the first Iâ€ve heard of anything of that

That is not what I said.

[BigDroppa]

Let the Games Begin !

[P1tchblack]

Rand Paul agrees with the decision.  Bottom line is Trump ran on keeping us out of these messes and he has kept most of his promises.

Withdrawing troops could have been made years earlier. They weren't. Citing campaign promises is a ruse, dare I say a lie. Everything about this decision makes Trump appear weak as if he was strong armed by Turkey.

Is it worth American lives so Trump won't appear weak?

How many US invasions/indefinite occupations are worth American lives so the US/Current president  can look strong?

[cincydawg]

Boy genius asked a question pages ago.....why now?  Why not in a more measured way once the isis fighters were dealt with that the Kurds were guarding?  Why not in a way that also protects the Kurds?

My GUESS is the Turks are having significant problems with refugees, some of whom may have bad intentions.  They decided to clear some space across the border to house them, instead of having them in camps in Turkey.  Perhaps the now part is they judged the ISIS thing is wrapped up, pretty much.  Perhaps Erdogan is facing internal pressures to DO something.

[BoyGenius]

Turkey mistakenly bombs US Special Forces in Syria attack... https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/...ack-report

The Turkish military shelled U.S. Special Forces during an operation that was an apparent mistake. A senior Pentagon official and an Iraqi Kurdish intelligence official said Friday that U.S. Special Forces came under shelling from the Turkish government during their "Operation Peace Spring," according to Newsweek.

U.S. forces withdrew after the shelling ceased and did not return fire. No fatalities have been reported.

The Pentagon official said that Turkey should have known U.S. forces were "down to the grid." An estimated 15 to 100 troops were in the area where the bombings occurred. All are accounted for.

[BoyGenius]

U.S. Military to Withdraw From Northern Syria... https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-order...1570974688

The U.S. military is evacuating its roughly 1,000 troops from northern Syria at the direction of President Trump, Defense Secretary Mark Esper said, removing a last impediment to Turkeyâ€s expanding incursion into Syria and marking an accelerated U.S. pullback from the international anti-Islamic State campaign.

Amid rapidly changing dynamics, the U.S. military said in a revised assessment on Sunday that Turkish artillery deliberately targeted areas within hundreds of feet of American troops on Friday. Hundreds of relatives of imprisoned Islamic State fighters fled refugee camps after Kurdish security personnel fled Turkish shelling.

Within Syria, there are few places where troops can move southward to reach the Iraqi border. In areas like those around the city of Deir ez Zour, Russia and Syrian troops are camped out, defense officials said. Officials said they are assessing whether they can expand their footprint into eastern Syria.

Mr. Esper, calling it “a very terrible situation,” said he spoke to Mr. Trump on Saturday evening. “After discussions with the rest of the national-security team…[the president] directed that we begin a deliberate withdrawal of forces from northern Syria,” Mr. Esper told CBS on Sunday.

Otherwise, U.S. troops would be “likely caught between opposing advancing armies,” as Russian-backed units advance northward and Turkey expands its incursion southward, Mr. Esper said.

[BoyGenius]

Trump Says ‘Ready to Go†on Turkey Sanctions as Troops Leave... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...orth-syria

President Donald Trump said the U.S. is “ready to go” with more sanctions on Turkey in response to its incursion into Syria, after his defense secretary said the president ordered a deliberate withdrawal of troops from northern Syria to keep them out of harmâ€s way.

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin also said the U.S has full authority to impose sanctions quickly on Turkey that could include shutting down all U.S. dollar transactions with the countryâ€s entire government -- which is a step the administration may take.

Asked on CBSâ€s “Face the Nation” about videos circulating that appear to show the execution of some Kurds, Secretary of Defense Mark Esper said if true, they “would be war crimes” -- raising questions about whether talk of imposing economic sanctions may be coming too late.

Esper said the U.S. learned in the past 24 hours that Turkey is likely to attack further south and to the west in Syria, and that Kurdish forces are looking to cut a deal with Syria and Russia to counterattack against the Turks in the north.

There are roughly 1,000 U.S. troops in Syria, Esper said on CBS. He made it clear that if U.S. forces are attacked they will be able to respond because “we had the right of self-defense and we will execute it if necessary.”

“We may want a war over; we may even declare it over,” Mattis said on NBCâ€s “Meet the Press” on Sunday. “You can pull your troops out -- as President Obama learned the hard way, out of Iraq -- but the ‘enemy gets the vote,†we say in the military.”

[Alabuckeye]

Trump Says ‘Ready to Go†on Turkey Sanctions as Troops Leave... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...orth-syria

President Donald Trump said the U.S. is “ready to go” with more sanctions on Turkey in response to its incursion into Syria, after his defense secretary said the president ordered a deliberate withdrawal of troops from northern Syria to keep them out of harmâ€s way.

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin also said the U.S has full authority to impose sanctions quickly on Turkey that could include shutting down all U.S. dollar transactions with the countryâ€s entire government -- which is a step the administration may take.

Asked on CBSâ€s “Face the Nation” about videos circulating that appear to show the execution of some Kurds, Secretary of Defense Mark Esper said if true, they “would be war crimes” -- raising questions about whether talk of imposing economic sanctions may be coming too late.

Esper said the U.S. learned in the past 24 hours that Turkey is likely to attack further south and to the west in Syria, and that Kurdish forces are looking to cut a deal with Syria and Russia to counterattack against the Turks in the north.

There are roughly 1,000 U.S. troops in Syria, Esper said on CBS. He made it clear that if U.S. forces are attacked they will be able to respond because “we had the right of self-defense and we will execute it if necessary.”

“We may want a war over; we may even declare it over,” Mattis said on NBCâ€s “Meet the Press” on Sunday. “You can pull your troops out -- as President Obama learned the hard way, out of Iraq -- but the ‘enemy gets the vote,†we say in the military.”

This situation is fascinating.  We acted like we had no leverage with Turkey to keep them from doing this, and now they are endangering our troops that we have said we are protecting by pulling them out. So now we are sanctioning them

[zigbee]

This entire mess in the Middle East is educational.  Found this:


Without seeking congressional approval, the Obama administration embarked on a multi-faceted campaign: oust Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, who had not attacked or threatened America; find, train, and empower moderate insurgents to create a liberal democracy in Syria; use radical extremists, such as al-Qaeda affiliate al-Nusra, against really radical extremists, such as the Islamic State; expel Iranian forces, even though they represented a government with far more at stake in the conflict than America and had been welcomed by Damascus; convince Moscow, a Cold War ally of Syria, to advance Washingtonâ€s agenda; employ Syrian Kurds to act as Americaâ€s shock troops against ISIS; persuade Turkey, which profited greatly from the illicit ISIS oil trade, to combat the Islamic State; pacify Turkey while arming Syrian Kurds, which Ankara viewed as an existential threat; and occupy sovereign Syrian territory until the foregoing objectives had been achieved.

[jmesser1982]

“My gut tells me more sometimes than anybody elseâ€s brain can ever tell me," Donald Trump

I have to agree with this guy.

“If I didnâ€t see Donald Trumpâ€s name on the tweet I thought it would be Obamaâ€s rationale for getting out of Iraq,” Senator Lindsey Graham, one of Mr. Trumpâ€s most vociferous defenders in recent years, but among his harshest Republican critics for the Syria decision, said last week.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/tru...ar-AAILbg6

[jmesser1982]

“My gut tells me more sometimes than anybody elseâ€s brain can ever tell me," Donald Trump

I have to agree with this guy.

“If I didnâ€t see Donald Trumpâ€s name on the tweet I thought it would be Obamaâ€s rationale for getting out of Iraq,” Senator Lindsey Graham, one of Mr. Trumpâ€s most vociferous defenders in recent years, but among his harshest Republican critics for the Syria decision, said last week.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/tru...ar-AAILbg6

 This is not to say the hypocritical dems who have suddenly become pro military are right about anything. I just believe Trump thought people would applaud him for removing the troops.He probably sought to move the limelight off of impeachment for a bit. He was never going to get credit for that and honestly he may end up being responsible for the rebirth ISIS.

[TcSoup]

on the News tonight not withdrawing Troops

[Alabuckeye]

on the News tonight not withdrawing Troops

That horse has left the barn.....and Turkey has entered