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10-10-2019, 06:44 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2019, 06:58 PM by stxbuck.)
(10-10-2019, 05:54 PM)zigbee Wrote: (10-10-2019, 05:26 PM)BoyGenius Wrote: Betrayal Is American Foreign Policy... https://www.truthdig.com/articles/betray...gn-policy/
... the (mostly) good news: President Trump appears poised, finally, to end the U.S. military mission in Northeast Syria. The move would constitute the first actual follow-through on the promises of candidate Trump to avoid “stupid†and terminate “endless†Mideast wars. Thatâ€s no small thing.
Nevertheless, the way the mission appears to be ending promises great (if ultimately unavoidable) human suffering, especially for Syriaâ€s Kurdish minority. Specifically, Trump has sold out his Kurdish partners, the main ground force that defeated the territorial Islamic State from 2014-19, suffering some 11,000 battle deaths in the process. Itâ€s not just that the US military is leaving, but Washington has veritably green-lighted an impending Turkish Army and Air Force invasion of Northeast Syria.
The result will be war, slaughter, potential ethnic cleansing, and perhaps even the resurgence of ISIS. What is the end game for Turkey here? Complete control of Syria to protect its borders? I don't know if Turkey has an endgame per se;. I think Erdogan wants to throw his weight around a bit b/c he can-he just threatened to send 6 million illegal Syrians into Europe if the EU gives him any crap. Sometimes you have to let neighbors settle their own messes-as US citizens we would be pretty pissed if France or Britain tried to us what we could or couldn't do with Mexico and our border. I think anyone with any brains realizes this is not the kind of thing that will end well for Turkey if this incursion is anything more than a glorified raid for a couple of months.
You are the biggest "Support Trump b/c he is Trump" guy on the board-what will you say if indeed ISIS has a major resurgence due to a massive prison break-which is the main negative possibility of this move.
I'm not going to criticize this decision-the Kurds live in a rough neighborhood, and the US can't hold their hand against Turkey forever, but I also find the timing a bit strange-I really doubt Erdogan was going to attack US troops-he's a tough customer but he's not nuts.
(10-10-2019, 06:25 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: (10-10-2019, 05:58 PM)BoyGenius Wrote: (10-10-2019, 05:29 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: Rand Paul agrees with the decision. Bottom line is Trump ran on keeping us out of these messes and he has kept most of his promises.
Withdrawing troops could have been made years earlier. They weren't. Citing campaign promises is a ruse, dare I say a lie. Everything about this decision makes Trump appear weak as if he was strong armed by Turkey.
Is it worth American lives so Trump won't appear weak?
He could have ended this years earlier. He didn't. No one seemed concerned about "saving lives" and "ending wars" until this week.
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(10-10-2019, 06:43 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:40 PM)I Hightop77 Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:35 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:25 PM)JHightop77 Wrote: (10-10-2019, 05:58 PM)BoyGenius Wrote: Withdrawing troops could have been made years earlier. They weren't. Citing campaign promises is a ruse, dare I say a lie. Everything about this decision makes Trump appear weak as if he was strong armed by Turkey.
Is it worth American lives so Trump won't appear weak? Has Trump EVER misstepped in your opinion? Â Even when he hangs out allies to dry? Â And die?
Allies? It just amazes how people get worked up about something like this but don't give a crap how we stabbed South Africa and Rhodesia in the back. Yes....the Kurds have been important allies for decades.....against isis, against Saddam....
What exactly would you want Trump to do?
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(10-10-2019, 06:40 PM)zigbee Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:35 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:25 PM)JHightop77 Wrote: (10-10-2019, 05:58 PM)BoyGenius Wrote: (10-10-2019, 05:29 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: Rand Paul agrees with the decision. Bottom line is Trump ran on keeping us out of these messes and he has kept most of his promises.
Withdrawing troops could have been made years earlier. They weren't. Citing campaign promises is a ruse, dare I say a lie. Everything about this decision makes Trump appear weak as if he was strong armed by Turkey.
Is it worth American lives so Trump won't appear weak? Has Trump EVER misstepped in your opinion?  Even when he hangs out allies to dry?  And die? Which is a fair question. I wonder who is to blame on this strategy with advice?
Again, I'm not versed enough in this subject to make an opinion. I†m not versed either....it†s concerning because if we betray allies in that region, we may live to regret it yers from now
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(10-10-2019, 06:46 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:43 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:40 PM)IÂ Hightop77 Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:35 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:25 PM)JHightop77 Wrote: Is it worth American lives so Trump won't appear weak? Has Trump EVER misstepped in your opinion? Â Even when he hangs out allies to dry? Â And die?
Allies? It just amazes how people get worked up about something like this but don't give a crap how we stabbed South Africa and Rhodesia in the back. Yes....the Kurds have been important allies for decades.....against isis, against Saddam....
What exactly would you want Trump to do? Not hang allies out to die
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Why is Hightop creating multiple user names in this thread-I Hightop, J Hightop,etc.?
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(10-10-2019, 06:44 PM)stxbuck Wrote: (10-10-2019, 05:54 PM)zigbee Wrote: (10-10-2019, 05:26 PM)BoyGenius Wrote: Betrayal Is American Foreign Policy... https://www.truthdig.com/articles/betray...gn-policy/
... the (mostly) good news: President Trump appears poised, finally, to end the U.S. military mission in Northeast Syria. The move would constitute the first actual follow-through on the promises of candidate Trump to avoid “stupid†and terminate “endless†Mideast wars. Thatâ€s no small thing.
Nevertheless, the way the mission appears to be ending promises great (if ultimately unavoidable) human suffering, especially for Syriaâ€s Kurdish minority. Specifically, Trump has sold out his Kurdish partners, the main ground force that defeated the territorial Islamic State from 2014-19, suffering some 11,000 battle deaths in the process. Itâ€s not just that the US military is leaving, but Washington has veritably green-lighted an impending Turkish Army and Air Force invasion of Northeast Syria.
The result will be war, slaughter, potential ethnic cleansing, and perhaps even the resurgence of ISIS. What is the end game for Turkey here? Complete control of Syria to protect its borders? I don't know if Turkey has an endgame per se;. I think Erdogan wants to throw his weight around a bit b/c he can-he just threatened to send 6 million illegal Syrians into Europe if the EU gives him any crap. Sometimes you have to let neighbors settle their own messes-as US citizens we would be pretty pissed if France or Britain tried to us what we could or couldn't do with Mexico and our border. I think anyone with any brains realizes this is not the kind of thing that will end well for Turkey if this incursion is anything more than a glorified raid for a couple of months.
You are the biggest "Support Trump b/c he is Trump" guy on the board-what will you say if indeed ISIS has a major resurgence due to a massive prison break-which is the main negative possibility of this move.. Not sure what I'd say in terms of Trump. Biggest supporter? Hmmmm, in terms of opposing jackass dems? yes.  In terms of mashing jackass media? Yes. In terms of opposing illegal immigration? Yes. In terms of putting the US first around the world? Yes. In terms of securing the border? yes. In terms of supporting US companies and business and the US investor and in most cases the consumer ? Yes.  If there is an issue you think I agree with him and you think he is wrong I'd be glad to listen and open to discussion.
IF I knew more about this Turkey deal in Syria and can show Trump is to blame for ISIS getting ginned back up maybe I could say he was wrong or right but at present I'm not sure.  Is George Bush to blame for ISIS getting started? Obama? US oil companies as far back as the 50s in the middle east which has led to resentment of US relations by radical Islamofascist Muslims?
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(10-10-2019, 06:51 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:46 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:43 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:40 PM)IÂ Hightop77 Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:35 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: Has Trump EVER misstepped in your opinion? Â Even when he hangs out allies to dry? Â And die?
Allies? It just amazes how people get worked up about something like this but don't give a crap how we stabbed South Africa and Rhodesia in the back. Yes....the Kurds have been important allies for decades.....against isis, against Saddam....
What exactly would you want Trump to do? Not hang allies out to die
OK. So you have no idea why you are criticizing him.
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(10-10-2019, 07:01 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:51 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:46 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:43 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:40 PM)I Hightop77 Wrote: Allies? It just amazes how people get worked up about something like this but don't give a crap how we stabbed South Africa and Rhodesia in the back. Yes....the Kurds have been important allies for decades.....against isis, against Saddam....
What exactly would you want Trump to do? Not hang allies out to die
OK. So you have no idea why you are criticizing him. You†ve misstated me before. Doing it again is your prerogative.Â
Feel feel to prove me wrong in my concern is that the US is hanging our allies out to die....
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(10-10-2019, 07:05 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: (10-10-2019, 07:01 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:51 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:46 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: (10-10-2019, 06:43 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: Yes....the Kurds have been important allies for decades.....against isis, against Saddam....
What exactly would you want Trump to do? Not hang allies out to die
OK. So you have no idea why you are criticizing him. Youâ€ve misstated me before. Doing it again is your prerogative.Â
Feel feel to prove me wrong in my concern is that the US is hanging our allies out to die.... So that is all you see in this?
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No....itâ€s not. Feel free to set my concerns at rest, or are you going to continue to avoid
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(10-10-2019, 07:08 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: No....itâ€s not. Feel free to set my concerns at rest, or are you going to continue to avoid
If that is your primary concern, that's fine. What would you do about it? Would you go to a real war over it?
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Boy genius asked a question pages ago.....why now? Why not in a more measured way once the isis fighters were dealt with that the Kurds were guarding? Why not in a way that also protects the Kurds?
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(10-10-2019, 07:12 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: Boy genius asked a question pages ago.....why now? Why not in a more measured way once the isis fighters were dealt with that the Kurds were guarding? Why not in a way that also protects the Kurds?
So you would get into a serious war to do that? It could easily escalate into that. I am not saying you are wrong, just trying to gauge what you want to do.
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(10-10-2019, 07:20 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: (10-10-2019, 07:12 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: Boy genius asked a question pages ago.....why now? Why not in a more measured way once the isis fighters were dealt with that the Kurds were guarding? Why not in a way that also protects the Kurds?
So you would get into a serious war to do that? It could easily escalate into that. I am not saying you are wrong, just trying to gauge what you want to do. Serious war with whom?  Turkey?
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