The Trump Phone call to Ukrainian President looks to be a dud

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When asked on Friday, Giuliani confirmed to me that the State Department asked him to take the Yermak meeting and that he did, in fact, apprise U.S. officials every step of the way.

“I didnâ€t even know who he [Yermak] really was, but they vouched for him. They actually urged me to talk to him because they said he seemed like an honest broker,” Giuliani told me. “I reported back to them [the two State officials] what my conversations with Yermak were about. All of this was done at the request of the State Department.”
So, rather than just a political opposition research operation, Giulianiâ€s contacts were part of a diplomatic effort by the State Department to grow trust with the new Ukrainian president, Zelensky, a former television comic making his first foray into politics and diplomacy.
Why would Ukraine want to talk to Giuliani, and why would the State Department be involved in facilitating it? 
According to interviews with more than a dozen Ukrainian and U.S. officials, Ukraineâ€s government under recently departed President Petro Poroshenko and, now, Zelensky has been trying since summer 2018 to hand over evidence about the conduct of Americans they believe might be involved in violations of U.S. law during the Obama years.
The Ukrainians say their efforts to get their allegations to U.S. authorities were thwarted first by the U.S. Embassy in Kiev, which failed to issue timely visas allowing them to visit America.
Then the Ukrainians hired a former U.S. attorney — not Giuliani — to hand-deliver the evidence of wrongdoing to the U.S. attorney's office in New York, but the federal prosecutors never responded. 
The U.S. attorney, a respected American, confirmed the Ukrainians†story to me. The allegations that Ukrainian officials wanted to pass on involved both efforts by the Democratic National Committee to pressure Ukraine to meddle in the 2016 U.S. election as well as Joe Bidenâ€s sonâ€s effort to make money in Ukraine while the former vice president managed U.S.-Ukraine relations, the retired U.S. attorney told me. 
Eventually, Giuliani in November 2018 got wind of the Ukrainian allegations and started to investigate. 
As President Trumpâ€s highest-profile defense attorney, the former New York City mayor, often known simply as Rudy, believed the Ukrainian's evidence could assist in his defense against the Russia collusion investigation and former special counsel Robert Muellerâ€s final report.
So Giuliani began to check things out in late 2018 and early 2019, but he never set foot in Ukraine. And when Ukrainian officials leaked word that he was considering visiting Ukraine to meet with senior officials to discuss the allegations — and it got politicized in America — Giuliani abruptly called off his trip. He stopped talking to the Ukrainian officials. 
Since that time, my American and foreign sources tell me, Ukrainian officials worried that the slight of Giuliani might hurt their relations with his most famous client, Trump.
And Trump himself added to the dynamic by encouraging Ukraineâ€s leaders to work with Giuliani to surface the evidence of alleged wrongdoing that has been floating around for more than two years, my sources said.

It is likely that the State Departmentâ€s overture to Giuliani in July was designed to allay fears of a diplomatic slight and to assure the nascent Ukrainian administration that everything would be OK between the two allies.  
The belief was that if Zelenskyâ€s top lawyer could talk to Trumpâ€s top lawyer, everything could be patched up, officials explained to me.
Ukrainian officials also are discussing privately the possibility of creating a parliamentary committee to assemble the evidence and formally send it to the U.S. Congress, after failed attempts to get the Department of Justiceâ€s attention, my sources say.
Such machinations are common when two countries are navigating diplomatic challenges, and, often, extracurricular activities with private citizens are part of the strategy, even if they are not apparent to the American public.  
So the media stories of Giulianiâ€s alleged political opposition research in Ukraine, it turns out, are a bit different than first reported. Itâ€s exactly the sort of nuanced, complex news development that my mentor nearly 30 years ago warned about.
And itâ€s too bad a shallow media effort has failed to capture the whole story and tell it to the American public in its entirety.  

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LOL...come  on.  What you post and what is said in that clip is not the same.

Giuliani lied.  He made up some bullshit about the 2016 election, when any sane person knows they're trying to dig up dirt on Biden.

No he didn't.  The dirt was already there.  TRYING?  LOL

[Hightop77]

LOL...come  on.  What you post and what is said in that clip is not the same.

Giuliani lied.  He made up some bullshit about the 2016 election, when any sane person knows they're trying to dig up dirt on Biden.

For someone who believes himself to be an independent thinker, you sure do parrot a lot of the MSM propaganda verbatim.  If Biden did something corrupt involving a foreign country, doesn't Trump have responsibility for investigating it?  Trump just received a 2.5 year cavity search over allegations that were not even true so why do you give Biden a pass over something he openly brags about?

[P1tchblack]

LOL...come  on.  What you post and what is said in that clip is not the same.

Giuliani lied.  He made up some bullshit about the 2016 election, when any sane person knows they're trying to dig up dirt on Biden.

No he didn't.  The dirt was already there.  TRYING?  LOL

Trying? All you have to do is watch the video. Giuliani tried to say that he was requesting an investigation into the 2016 election and something to do with Hillary Clinton. That was not the case, which is why seconds later he said that he did ask for an investigation into Biden. If Joe Biden made some kind of promises to the Ukraine to get his son a job, that is very clearly a problem which should be investigated on our side. That has nothing to do with the 2016 election, nor does it change the fact that Giuliani flat-out lied when asked whether or not he requested an investigation into Biden. Spin all you want, that is the reality.

[P1tchblack]

LOL...come  on.  What you post and what is said in that clip is not the same.

Giuliani lied.  He made up some bullshit about the 2016 election, when any sane person knows they're trying to dig up dirt on Biden.

For someone who believes himself to be an independent thinker, you sure do parrot a lot of the MSM propaganda verbatim.  If Biden did something corrupt involving a foreign country, doesn't Trump have responsibility for investigating it?  Trump just received a 2.5 year cavity search over allegations that were not even true so why do you give Biden a pass over something he openly brags about?

Holy *****... I never said it shouldn't be investigated, Captain strawman. What I said was Giuliani lied. He lied. It's on video. Based on the fact that Giuliani lied, there's probably a decent  chance that Trump is lying about the content of his conversations with the Ukrainian president, too.

[P1tchblack]

Am I on Candid Camera??

[Hightop77]

LOL...come  on.  What you post and what is said in that clip is not the same.

Giuliani lied.  He made up some bullshit about the 2016 election, when any sane person knows they're trying to dig up dirt on Biden.

For someone who believes himself to be an independent thinker, you sure do parrot a lot of the MSM propaganda verbatim.  If Biden did something corrupt involving a foreign country, doesn't Trump have responsibility for investigating it?  Trump just received a 2.5 year cavity search over allegations that were not even true so why do you give Biden a pass over something he openly brags about?

Holy *****... I never said it shouldn't be investigated, Captain strawman. What I said was Giuliani lied. He lied. It's on video. Based on the fact that Giuliani lied, there's probably a decent  chance that Trump is lying about the content of his conversations with the Ukrainian president, too.

Who cares?  It is irrelevant.  Everyone lies especially politicians.  Some lies are meaningless and some have major consequences.  What Democrats lie about is usually significant, negatively impacts the country and they get away with it thanks to the media.  What Rudy said is irrelevant.

[P1tchblack]

LOL...come  on.  What you post and what is said in that clip is not the same.

Giuliani lied.  He made up some bullshit about the 2016 election, when any sane person knows they're trying to dig up dirt on Biden.

For someone who believes himself to be an independent thinker, you sure do parrot a lot of the MSM propaganda verbatim.  If Biden did something corrupt involving a foreign country, doesn't Trump have responsibility for investigating it?  Trump just received a 2.5 year cavity search over allegations that were not even true so why do you give Biden a pass over something he openly brags about?

Holy *****... I never said it shouldn't be investigated, Captain strawman. What I said was Giuliani lied. He lied. It's on video. Based on the fact that Giuliani lied, there's probably a decent  chance that Trump is lying about the content of his conversations with the Ukrainian president, too.

Who cares?  It is irrelevant.  Everyone lies especially politicians.  Some lies are meaningless and some have major consequences.  What Democrats lie about is usually significant, negatively impacts the country and they get away with it thanks to the media.  What Rudy said is irrelevant.

This is hilarious. I need to bookmark this exact post where you downplay lying by a republican politician. I would absolutely love to see you post anything similar when it's a Democrat lying. Freaking hilarious.

If you think Giuliani lying is irrelevant, then please explain why Biden's son having a job he doesn't deserve is so relevant. Politicians lie all the time and parents use pull to get things for their kids all the time, right? Again, Trump is welcome to investigate Biden to see if he made any promises to anyone to get his son a job. That can happen whether the Ukraine president is involved or not.

[Syncro]

Who is Rudy lying to? The media? F*ck em.

Would it be a different story if he was lying to Congress, a special counsel, etc? Yes, absolutely...that'd be a real story. Bullshitting a CNN talking head is hardly worth getting so worked up over.

Did you even bother reading the Solomon piece I linked this morning in this thread?

[Hightop77]

Giuliani lied.  He made up some bullshit about the 2016 election, when any sane person knows they're trying to dig up dirt on Biden.

For someone who believes himself to be an independent thinker, you sure do parrot a lot of the MSM propaganda verbatim.  If Biden did something corrupt involving a foreign country, doesn't Trump have responsibility for investigating it?  Trump just received a 2.5 year cavity search over allegations that were not even true so why do you give Biden a pass over something he openly brags about?

Holy *****... I never said it shouldn't be investigated, Captain strawman. What I said was Giuliani lied. He lied. It's on video. Based on the fact that Giuliani lied, there's probably a decent  chance that Trump is lying about the content of his conversations with the Ukrainian president, too.

Who cares?  It is irrelevant.  Everyone lies especially politicians.  Some lies are meaningless and some have major consequences.  What Democrats lie about is usually significant, negatively impacts the country and they get away with it thanks to the media.  What Rudy said is irrelevant.

This is hilarious. I need to bookmark this exact post where you downplay lying by a republican politician. I would absolutely love to see you post anything similar when it's a Democrat lying. Freaking hilarious.

If you think Giuliani lying is irrelevant, then please explain why Biden's son having a job he doesn't deserve is so relevant. Politicians lie all the time and parents use pull to get things for their kids all the time, right? Again, Trump is welcome to investigate Biden to see if he made any promises to anyone to get his son a job. That can happen whether the Ukraine president is involved or not.

You actually don't understand the insignificance of what Rudy said versus Biden using the office of Vice President to become involved in corruption and influence peddling to benefit his son?  Unbelievable.  We are back into 3vfarm territory again.

[Syncro]

You actually don't understand the insignificance of what Rudy said versus Biden using the office of Vice President to become involved in corruption and influence peddling to benefit his son?  Unbelievable.  We are back into 3vfarm territory again.

He understands, he just chooses to be intentionally obtuse and drag every thread into the weeds.

[P1tchblack]

For someone who believes himself to be an independent thinker, you sure do parrot a lot of the MSM propaganda verbatim.  If Biden did something corrupt involving a foreign country, doesn't Trump have responsibility for investigating it?  Trump just received a 2.5 year cavity search over allegations that were not even true so why do you give Biden a pass over something he openly brags about?

Holy *****... I never said it shouldn't be investigated, Captain strawman. What I said was Giuliani lied. He lied. It's on video. Based on the fact that Giuliani lied, there's probably a decent  chance that Trump is lying about the content of his conversations with the Ukrainian president, too.

Who cares?  It is irrelevant.  Everyone lies especially politicians.  Some lies are meaningless and some have major consequences.  What Democrats lie about is usually significant, negatively impacts the country and they get away with it thanks to the media.  What Rudy said is irrelevant.

This is hilarious. I need to bookmark this exact post where you downplay lying by a republican politician. I would absolutely love to see you post anything similar when it's a Democrat lying. Freaking hilarious.

If you think Giuliani lying is irrelevant, then please explain why Biden's son having a job he doesn't deserve is so relevant. Politicians lie all the time and parents use pull to get things for their kids all the time, right? Again, Trump is welcome to investigate Biden to see if he made any promises to anyone to get his son a job. That can happen whether the Ukraine president is involved or not.

You actually don't understand the insignificance of what Rudy said versus Biden using the office of Vice President to become involved in corruption and influence peddling to benefit his son?  Unbelievable.  We are back into 3vfarm territory again.

So you KNOW  Biden used his position to get his skn a job?

Link?

[P1tchblack]

Who is Rudy lying to?  The media?  F*ck em.

Would it be a different story if he was lying to Congress, a special counsel, etc?  Yes, absolutely...that'd be a real story.  Bullshitting a CNN talking head is hardly worth getting so worked up over.

Did you even bother reading the Solomon piece I linked this morning in this thread?

FYI...since none of us are politicians, nor speak directly to politicians, the media is the only way we get information on what's going on in the government.  Giuliani lied. Why? Why do you feel the need to lie about an attempt to investigate a potential pay-for-play type situation?  If what you are investigating is a legitimate concern, why do you lie?

[P1tchblack]

Here's a question for anybody who wants to answer... if everything is on the up-and-up in regards to Giuliani and Trump's intentions / goals with the Biden job situation, then why did Giuliani lie?

[zigbee]

Here's a question for anybody who wants to answer... if everything is on the up-and-up in regards to Giuliani and Trump's intentions / goals with the Biden job situation, then why did Giuliani lie?

He didn't lie.  YOU can continue to wet your panties over it but I watched the Cuomo interview and like him you are twisting it to SEEM he lied.  Giuliani has never lied.