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The Trump Phone call to Ukrainian President looks to be a dud
#25
(09-21-2019, 09:06 PM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(09-21-2019, 08:55 PM)zigbee Wrote:
(09-21-2019, 08:51 PM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(09-21-2019, 08:41 PM)zigbee Wrote:
(09-21-2019, 08:38 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: The significance is that Giuliani lied about asking for an investigation and there's a pretty good chance that Trump is lying about his conversation with the Ukrainian President.
Pretty sure Giuliani came out and said he asked them to investigate unless I missed something here.

He did... After he lied.
Hmmmmmmm, interesting.
Question: do you think Biden's son should have gotten fat and rich in a poverty stricken Country like Ukraine by being on some energy conglomerate board and knowing nothing about energy in a nation that has rampant corruption?  Is that worse than phone calls or lying about wanting Biden's boy investigated for cronyism?  Hmmmmmm

None of that bas anything to do with Giuliani and Trump lying.
You can't show where either lied...that's speculation on your part, and what I asked you remained unanswered.   Can you give us response to question besides deflection?







MAGA
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#26
Pitch, for the sake of argument let's agree that they lied to the press.  Ok, now what is your position on leakers crippling a president's ability to conduct his business?  This is getting beyond dangerous.  Used to be that the parties would agree to hold off on the naked partisanship on stuff like this (foreign policy).  Now you have some clown working for the president actually undermining him.  The FBI needs to step in and clean this shit up.  You may disagree with your boss, fine, but you don't undermine him.  If you feel that strongly against him then RESIGN and oppose him from outside the government.
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#27
(09-21-2019, 09:09 PM)zigbee Wrote:
(09-21-2019, 09:06 PM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(09-21-2019, 08:55 PM)zigbee Wrote:
(09-21-2019, 08:51 PM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(09-21-2019, 08:41 PM)zigbee Wrote: Pretty sure Giuliani came out and said he asked them to investigate unless I missed something here.

He did... After he lied.
Hmmmmmmm, interesting.
Question: do you think Biden's son should have gotten fat and rich in a poverty stricken Country like Ukraine by being on some energy conglomerate board and knowing nothing about energy in a nation that has rampant corruption?  Is that worse than phone calls or lying about wanting Biden's boy investigated for cronyism?  Hmmmmmm

None of that bas anything to do with Giuliani and Trump lying.
You can't show where either lied...that's speculation on your part, and what I asked you remained unanswered.   Can you give us response to question besides deflection?
"Can you give us response to question besides deflection?"

You're the one taking the discussion off course, not me.  My opinion of who Ukrainian companies choose to hire is as irrelevant as a Ukrainian company hiring an apparently unqualified person for their board. 

When Cuomo asked whether Giuliani had asked Ukrainian officials to investigate Biden, Giuliani originally denied it.

"No, actually I didn’t," Giuliani said. "I asked Ukraine to investigate the allegations that there was interference in the election of 2016 by the Ukrainians for the benefit of Hillary Clinton."
When pressed again, Giuliani changed course, according to the CNN video.

"The only thing I asked about Joe Biden" was about how the prosecutor was dismissed.
"So you did ask Ukraine to look into Joe Biden," Cuomo said.

"Of course I did," Giuliani replied.

"You just said you didn't!" Cuomo fired back.

“Censorship reflects society’s lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime.”

–Potter Stewart
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#28
LOL...come  on.  What you post and what is said in that clip is not the same.







MAGA
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#29
Here is a VERY interesting piece by John Solomon from Friday, well worth reading.

There is MUCH more to this story than the MSM clowns are pushing. Sure as hell looks like the State Dept set this all up...

"But there is a missing part of the story that the American public needs in order to assess what really happened: Giuliani’s contact with Zelensky adviser and attorney Andrei Yermak this summer was encouraged and facilitated by the U.S. State Department.

Giuliani didn’t initiate it. A senior U.S. diplomat contacted him in July and asked for permission to connect Yermak with him."

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/...re-to-rudy
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#30
(09-22-2019, 09:49 AM)zigbee Wrote: LOL...come  on.  What you post and what is said in that clip is not the same.

Giuliani lied.  He made up some bullshit about the 2016 election, when any sane person knows they're trying to dig up dirt on Biden.
“Censorship reflects society’s lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime.”

–Potter Stewart
Reply
#31
When asked on Friday, Giuliani confirmed to me that the State Department asked him to take the Yermak meeting and that he did, in fact, apprise U.S. officials every step of the way.

“I didn’t even know who he [Yermak] really was, but they vouched for him. They actually urged me to talk to him because they said he seemed like an honest broker,” Giuliani told me. “I reported back to them [the two State officials] what my conversations with Yermak were about. All of this was done at the request of the State Department.”
So, rather than just a political opposition research operation, Giuliani’s contacts were part of a diplomatic effort by the State Department to grow trust with the new Ukrainian president, Zelensky, a former television comic making his first foray into politics and diplomacy.
Why would Ukraine want to talk to Giuliani, and why would the State Department be involved in facilitating it? 
According to interviews with more than a dozen Ukrainian and U.S. officials, Ukraine’s government under recently departed President Petro Poroshenko and, now, Zelensky has been trying since summer 2018 to hand over evidence about the conduct of Americans they believe might be involved in violations of U.S. law during the Obama years.
The Ukrainians say their efforts to get their allegations to U.S. authorities were thwarted first by the U.S. Embassy in Kiev, which failed to issue timely visas allowing them to visit America.
Then the Ukrainians hired a former U.S. attorney — not Giuliani — to hand-deliver the evidence of wrongdoing to the U.S. attorney's office in New York, but the federal prosecutors never responded. 
The U.S. attorney, a respected American, confirmed the Ukrainians’ story to me. The allegations that Ukrainian officials wanted to pass on involved both efforts by the Democratic National Committee to pressure Ukraine to meddle in the 2016 U.S. election as well as Joe Biden’s son’s effort to make money in Ukraine while the former vice president managed U.S.-Ukraine relations, the retired U.S. attorney told me. 
Eventually, Giuliani in November 2018 got wind of the Ukrainian allegations and started to investigate. 
As President Trump’s highest-profile defense attorney, the former New York City mayor, often known simply as Rudy, believed the Ukrainian's evidence could assist in his defense against the Russia collusion investigation and former special counsel Robert Mueller’s final report.
So Giuliani began to check things out in late 2018 and early 2019, but he never set foot in Ukraine. And when Ukrainian officials leaked word that he was considering visiting Ukraine to meet with senior officials to discuss the allegations — and it got politicized in America — Giuliani abruptly called off his trip. He stopped talking to the Ukrainian officials. 
Since that time, my American and foreign sources tell me, Ukrainian officials worried that the slight of Giuliani might hurt their relations with his most famous client, Trump.
And Trump himself added to the dynamic by encouraging Ukraine’s leaders to work with Giuliani to surface the evidence of alleged wrongdoing that has been floating around for more than two years, my sources said.

It is likely that the State Department’s overture to Giuliani in July was designed to allay fears of a diplomatic slight and to assure the nascent Ukrainian administration that everything would be OK between the two allies.  
The belief was that if Zelensky’s top lawyer could talk to Trump’s top lawyer, everything could be patched up, officials explained to me.
Ukrainian officials also are discussing privately the possibility of creating a parliamentary committee to assemble the evidence and formally send it to the U.S. Congress, after failed attempts to get the Department of Justice’s attention, my sources say.
Such machinations are common when two countries are navigating diplomatic challenges, and, often, extracurricular activities with private citizens are part of the strategy, even if they are not apparent to the American public.  
So the media stories of Giuliani’s alleged political opposition research in Ukraine, it turns out, are a bit different than first reported. It’s exactly the sort of nuanced, complex news development that my mentor nearly 30 years ago warned about.
And it’s too bad a shallow media effort has failed to capture the whole story and tell it to the American public in its entirety.  







MAGA
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#32
(09-22-2019, 09:56 AM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(09-22-2019, 09:49 AM)zigbee Wrote: LOL...come  on.  What you post and what is said in that clip is not the same.

Giuliani lied.  He made up some bullshit about the 2016 election, when any sane person knows they're trying to dig up dirt on Biden.
No he didn't.  The dirt was already there.  TRYING?  LOL







MAGA
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#33
(09-22-2019, 09:56 AM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(09-22-2019, 09:49 AM)zigbee Wrote: LOL...come  on.  What you post and what is said in that clip is not the same.

Giuliani lied.  He made up some bullshit about the 2016 election, when any sane person knows they're trying to dig up dirt on Biden.

For someone who believes himself to be an independent thinker, you sure do parrot a lot of the MSM propaganda verbatim.  If Biden did something corrupt involving a foreign country, doesn't Trump have responsibility for investigating it?  Trump just received a 2.5 year cavity search over allegations that were not even true so why do you give Biden a pass over something he openly brags about?
Drive like hell!!  You'll get there!
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#34
(09-22-2019, 09:59 AM)zigbee Wrote:
(09-22-2019, 09:56 AM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(09-22-2019, 09:49 AM)zigbee Wrote: LOL...come  on.  What you post and what is said in that clip is not the same.

Giuliani lied.  He made up some bullshit about the 2016 election, when any sane person knows they're trying to dig up dirt on Biden.
No he didn't.  The dirt was already there.  TRYING?  LOL

Trying? All you have to do is watch the video. Giuliani tried to say that he was requesting an investigation into the 2016 election and something to do with Hillary Clinton. That was not the case, which is why seconds later he said that he did ask for an investigation into Biden. If Joe Biden made some kind of promises to the Ukraine to get his son a job, that is very clearly a problem which should be investigated on our side. That has nothing to do with the 2016 election, nor does it change the fact that Giuliani flat-out lied when asked whether or not he requested an investigation into Biden. Spin all you want, that is the reality.
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#35
(09-22-2019, 10:05 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(09-22-2019, 09:56 AM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(09-22-2019, 09:49 AM)zigbee Wrote: LOL...come  on.  What you post and what is said in that clip is not the same.

Giuliani lied.  He made up some bullshit about the 2016 election, when any sane person knows they're trying to dig up dirt on Biden.

For someone who believes himself to be an independent thinker, you sure do parrot a lot of the MSM propaganda verbatim.  If Biden did something corrupt involving a foreign country, doesn't Trump have responsibility for investigating it?  Trump just received a 2.5 year cavity search over allegations that were not even true so why do you give Biden a pass over something he openly brags about?

Holy shit... I never said it shouldn't be investigated, Captain strawman. What I said was Giuliani lied. He lied. It's on video. Based on the fact that Giuliani lied, there's probably a decent  chance that Trump is lying about the content of his conversations with the Ukrainian president, too.
“Censorship reflects society’s lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime.”

–Potter Stewart
Reply
#36
Am I on Candid Camera??

[Image: giphy-downsized-large.gif]
“Censorship reflects society’s lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime.”

–Potter Stewart
Reply


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