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Quote of the day: A positive outlook is what leads to positive results.

WELCOME new member AMaizawing (April 03, 2020)


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How successful will your kids be?
#1
****This has nothing to do with race*****


First, here is a link to a story that discusses the study which compared parenting styles of poor parents and middle-class + parents that seems to show that the parenting style has a direct impact on a child's chances of staying in the middle class as an adult.

Below is an excerpt from a book (which is completely free online as a PDF, so I don't see any issue copying parts from it) which also discusses the study.  I didn't post all of the section because it would have been too much in this setting.  Since it's part of a book, there's some overlap discussion on other topics from earlier in the book.


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So where does something like practical intelligence come from. We know where analytical intelligence comes from. It's something, at least in part, that's in your genes. Chris Langan started talking at six months. He taught himself to read at three years of age. He was born smart. IQ is a measure, to some degree, of innate ability.* But social savvy is knowledge. It's a set of skills that have to be learned. It has to come from somewhere, and the place where we seem to get these kinds of attitudes and skills is from our families.

Perhaps the best explanation we have of this process comes from the sociologist Annette Lareau, who a few years ago conducted a fascinating study of a group of third graders. She picked both blacks and whites and children from both wealthy homes and poor homes, zeroing in, ultimately, on twelve families. Lareau and her team visited each family at least twenty times, for hours at a stretch. She and her assistants told their subjects to treat them like “the family dog,” and they followed them to church and to soccer games and to doctor's appointments, with a tape recorder in one hand and a notebook in the other.

You might expect that if you spent such an extended period in twelve different households, what you would gather is twelve different ideas about how to raise children: there would be the strict parents and the lax parents and the hyper-involved parents and the mellow parents and on and on. What Lareau found, however, is something much different. There were only two parenting “philosophies,” and they divided almost perfectly along class lines.

The wealthier parents raised their kids one way, and the poorer parents raised their kids another way. The wealthier parents were heavily involved in their children's free time, shuttling them from one activity to the next, quizzing them about their teachers and coaches and teammates. One of the well-off children Lareau followed played on a baseball team, two soccer teams, a swim team, and a basketball team in the summer, as well as playing in an orchestra and taking piano lessons.

That kind of intensive scheduling was almost entirely absent from the lives of the poor children. Play for them wasn't soccer practice twice a week. It was making up games outside with their siblings and other kids in the neighborhood. What a child did was considered by his or her parents as something separate from the adult world and not particularly consequential. One girl from a working-class family, Katie Brindle, sang in a choir after school. But she signed up for it herself and walked to choir practice on her own. Lareau writes:

What Mrs. Brindle doesn't do that is routine for middle-class mothers is view her daughter's interest in singing as a signal to look for other ways to help her develop that interest into a formal talent. Similarly Mrs. Brindle does not discuss Katie's interest in drama or express regret that she cannot afford to cultivate her daughter's talent. Instead she frames Katie's skills and interests as character traits singing and acting are part of what makes Katie “Katie.” She sees the shows her daughter puts on as “cute” and as a way for Katie to “get attention.”

The middle-class parents talked things through with their children, reasoning with them. They didn't just issue commands. They expected their children to talk back to them, to negotiate, to question adults in positions of authority. If their children were doing poorly at school, the wealthier parents challenged their teachers. They intervened on behalf of their kids. One child Lareau follows just misses qualifying for a gifted program. Her mother arranges for her to be retested privately, petitions the school, and gets her daughter admitted. The poor parents, by contrast, are intimidated by authority. They react passively and stay in the background. Lareau writes of one low-income parent:

At a parent-teacher conference, for example, Ms. McAllister (who is a high school graduate) seems subdued. The gregarious and outgoing nature she displays at home is hidden in this setting. She sits hunched over in the chair and she keeps her jacket zipped up. She is very quiet. When the teacher reports that Harold has not been turning in his homework, Ms. McAllister clearly is flabbergasted, but all she says is, “He did it at home.” She does not follow up with the teacher or attempt to intervene on Harold's behalf. In her view, it is up to the teachers to manage her son's education. That is their job, not hers.

Lareau calls the middle-class parenting style “concerted cultivation.” It's an attempt to actively “foster and assess a child's talents, opinions and skills.” Poor parents tend to follow, by contrast, a strategy of “accomplishment of natural growth.” They see as their responsibility to care for their children but to let them grow and develop on their own. Lareau stresses that one style isn't morally better than the other. The poorer children were, to her mind, often better behaved, less whiny, more creative in making use of their own time, and had a well-developed sense of independence. But in practical terms, concerted cultivation has enormous advantages. The heavily scheduled middle-class child is exposed to a constantly shifting set of experiences. She learns teamwork and how to cope in highly structured settings. She is taught how to interact comfortably with adults, and to speak up when she needs to. In Lareau's words, the middle-class children learn a sense of “entitlement.”

That word, of course, has negative connotations these days. But Lareau means it in the best sense of the term: “They acted as though they had a right to pursue their own individual preferences and to actively manage interactions in institutional settings. They appeared comfortable in those settings; they were open to sharing information and asking for attention. It was common practice among middle-class children to shift interactions to suit their preferences.” They knew the rules. “Even in fourth grade, middle-class children appeared to be acting on their own behalf to gain advantages. They made special requests of teachers and doctors to adjust procedures to accommodate their desires.” By contrast, the working-class and poor children were characterized by “an emerging sense of distance, distrust, and constraint.” They didn't know how to get their way, or how to “customize” using Lareau's wonderful term whatever environment they were in, for their best purposes.
#2
As long as they work and pay taxes and obey laws I'm satisfied.
Make America Honest Again
#3
Depends on how one defines success
#4
(09-08-2019, 02:18 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: Depends on how one defines success

Ding. Ding. Ding. Ding. Ding.
#5
(09-08-2019, 02:18 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: Depends on how one defines success

Not many people consider being poor a success and I think most parents want to see their kids out of poverty.

However, your unwillingness to read the post is noted.
#6
There are plenty of poor people that are more successful than rich people in many ways aside from money. If they have a stable happy loving family are they more successful than a drug addicted rich person with toxic interpersonal relationships? Think Hollywood. 
Smarter people navigate the world better than the less intelligent. Duh. Those folks pass those traits onto their children genetically and by modeling. Duh. 
Could we help the poor? Yes, I'd like to see compulsory schooling starting very early in infancy so those children will be exposed to more than just what they would be exposed to at home. Wouldn't help the genetic differences but it might help some. Might give some with more potential than expected a leg up.
#7
(09-08-2019, 03:57 PM)3rdgensooner Wrote: There are plenty of poor people that are more successful than rich people in many ways aside from money. If they have a stable happy loving family are they more successful than a drug addicted rich person with toxic interpersonal relationships? Think Hollywood. 
Smarter people navigate the world better than the less intelligent. Duh. Those folks pass those traits onto their children genetically and by modeling. Duh. 
Could we help the poor? Yes, I'd like to see compulsory schooling starting very early in infancy so those children will be exposed to more than just what they would be exposed to at home. Wouldn't help the genetic differences but it might help some. Might give some with more potential than expected a leg up.

The study isn't about intelligence.  It's about parenting styles.
#8
(09-08-2019, 04:54 PM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(09-08-2019, 03:57 PM)3rdgensooner Wrote: There are plenty of poor people that are more successful than rich people in many ways aside from money. If they have a stable happy loving family are they more successful than a drug addicted rich person with toxic interpersonal relationships? Think Hollywood. 
Smarter people navigate the world better than the less intelligent. Duh. Those folks pass those traits onto their children genetically and by modeling. Duh. 
Could we help the poor? Yes, I'd like to see compulsory schooling starting very early in infancy so those children will be exposed to more than just what they would be exposed to at home. Wouldn't help the genetic differences but it might help some. Might give some with more potential than expected a leg up.

The study isn't about intelligence.  It's about parenting styles.
Itâ€s not really a study. And it all goes back to intelligence.
#9
(09-08-2019, 04:58 PM)3rdgensooner Wrote:
(09-08-2019, 04:54 PM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(09-08-2019, 03:57 PM)3rdgensooner Wrote: There are plenty of poor people that are more successful than rich people in many ways aside from money. If they have a stable happy loving family are they more successful than a drug addicted rich person with toxic interpersonal relationships? Think Hollywood. 
Smarter people navigate the world better than the less intelligent. Duh. Those folks pass those traits onto their children genetically and by modeling. Duh. 
Could we help the poor? Yes, I'd like to see compulsory schooling starting very early in infancy so those children will be exposed to more than just what they would be exposed to at home. Wouldn't help the genetic differences but it might help some. Might give some with more potential than expected a leg up.

The study isn't about intelligence.  It's about parenting styles.
Itâ€s not really a study. And it all goes back to intelligence.

No, it doesn't.
#10
Obviously this study ties in to your other fake study, Outliers.  So what is the good sociologist's solution to this "disparity" that she has uncovered?  Let's get to the bottom line.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


#11
(09-08-2019, 06:15 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: Obviously this study ties in to your other fake study, Outliers.  So what is the good sociologist's solution to this "disparity" that she has uncovered?  Let's get to the bottom line.

I couldn't care less about a solution. Understanding and explaining has nothing to do with creating a solution.

BTW, your "fake " assessment is probably only based on your knee-jerk reaction to what you perceive as a liberal cause, which is why there are a shitload of closed minds here.
#12
(09-08-2019, 06:31 PM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(09-08-2019, 06:15 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: Obviously this study ties in to your other fake study, Outliers.  So what is the good sociologist's solution to this "disparity" that she has uncovered?  Let's get to the bottom line.

I couldn't care less about a solution. Understanding and explaining has nothing to do with creating a solution.

BTW, your "fake " assessment is probably only based on your knee-jerk reaction to what you perceive as a liberal cause, which is why there are a shitload of closed minds here.
Oh, the irony of that statement....I think most are open to logical debate when it's presented.  Logical being the key.  Some have predetermined minds no doubt like a majority of society has.
Make America Honest Again


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