China

[lrrps21]

Wahhoo or China -

What are your experiences/thoughts on China's Social Credit System? How does this affect a person's employment? Business? Housing? Travel?

[K9Buck]

I'm inclined to think that the Chinese are more fascist than communist with regard to their governance.

[K9Buck]

ChinaBuck, how invasive is the Chinese government with regard to "private" business?  It's my understanding that the Chinese government has government representatives at all businesses of sufficient size and that such companies are beholden to Chinese authorities.  Is my understanding accurate?  

On another note, I take it that the companies vacating China for places like Vietnam are foreign owned and NOT owned by Chinese.  Is that accurate?

I can't speak for ChinaBuck but as it relates to factories moving or co-locating it is a combination of local PRC owners, Taiwanese owners and Chinese nationals who live abroad. The local Chinese owner's financial motivations certainly outstrip any patriotic emotional attachment they have to "made in China".  For a communist country their business culture is about as capitalistic as you can find anywhere in the world.

I work in an industry that is primarily made-up of mid cap companies and none of the Chinese operations or the operations of our partners have Chinese govt officials working in them.  I can't speak for large, strategic industries and to what extent Chinese govt has reps embedded in their businesses.  The Chinese govt though has stepped-up their regulations and compliance substantially in the past few years.  Pollution controls and regulations are one big example.  They  started-up new pollution regulations 3-4 years ago and have been actively enforcing them and doing factory checks and audits the past 3 years or so.  You break the pollution regulations and you end up with big financial fines and end up in prison as well.   They have been enforcing anti-bribery and anti-corruption regulations much more rigorously over the same time period as well. 

So the govt involvement is increasingly in the forms of regulations -- sounds familiar right?

Thanks.

[BoyGenius]

China exporters praying weaker yuan will save them from Trumpâ€s higher tariffs... https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-econo...hem-donald

• For growing number of Chinese exporters, US tariff rates have reached their breaking point, meaning they expect to lose access to the American market
  
• Exporters in Chinaâ€s manufacturing heartlands also express growing annoyance at US government and buyers, vowing to find new markets
  

Chinese exporters are praying for a continued depreciation of the yuan, hoping it will cushion the blow of the new round of tariffs to be implemented by the United States. Many traditional exporters in Chinaâ€s Pearl River Delta and Yangtze River Delta regions, the countryâ€s manufacturing heartlands, say that the increase in US tariffs to 30 per cent will go beyond the limit of what they can afford.

They also fully expect both the US and Chinese tariffs to increase further, meaning they will lose access to the US market in which they have been operating for decades.

“We were convinced that one of our long-term US clients, who is actually an intermediate trader for supermarket chains in the US, would order from us. But 300 container loads of goods have yet to be shipped, with a value of about US$5 million,” said a Chinese exporter of canned fruit, who wished not to be named. If the yuan does not further depreciate by more than 5 per cent, she added, the company will have no choice but to cease exports to the US after October 1.

[ScarletHayes]

Wow, sounds like we risk losing the importing of goods from a human rights hell-hole.  

Talks will continue and an agreement will be reached.   Why the Chinese seem opposed to a win-win scenario is sort of telling.  Trump is exposing a lot of folks, here and abroad.

[ChinaBuck]

ChinaBuck, how invasive is the Chinese government with regard to "private" business?  It's my understanding that the Chinese government has government representatives at all businesses of sufficient size and that such companies are beholden to Chinese authorities.  Is my understanding accurate?  

On another note, I take it that the companies vacating China for places like Vietnam are foreign owned and NOT owned by Chinese.  Is that accurate?

My apologies for not answering sooner. We had a really intense period of work in early/mid August.

I really havenâ€t seen the government get that involved in private business if you keep your nose clean. Now, to be sure, things are heavily regulated, so itâ€s best to toe the line. I rarely have seen government officers at meetings. And then itâ€s usually because the department they represent is directly involved. The big hospitals all have a Communist Party political leader, and sometimes they are involved, but thatâ€s usually to provide guan xi (good relationship) with the political leaders of a city. Hospitals are often the means by which a mayor proves himself as being a good leader. 

As Wahoo noted, itâ€s not the Chinese companies leaving, but a few of the Western companies. I really donâ€t see any new entrants in my market area. The ones that are here have been here a while. Iâ€ve seen a few leave. But thatâ€s just due to the fact that China can be a very tough place to earn a buck.

[ChinaBuck]

Wahhoo or China -

What are your experiences/thoughts on China's Social Credit System? How does this affect a person's employment? Business? Housing? Travel?

The social credit is not nationwide yet. But it will be hugely involved in defining what a Chinese citizen is going to be able to do in life. Essentially people get graded on everything you do. Paying your bills on time, your driving record, any possible criminal/civil record, how you act while you travel, even if you jaywalk. Itâ€s all counted toward a good or bad score. And the government, with all of the cameras and facial recognition technologies, they can almost track you everywhere. 

It also seems very opaque, I donâ€t know of any appeal process. So your score determines if you can change your official location to another city (hukou), work for the government, buy a car, get a loan, buy a house, and travel. Itâ€s a credit rating of your entire life.

[zigbee]

Wahhoo or China -

What are your experiences/thoughts on China's Social Credit System? How does this affect a person's employment? Business? Housing? Travel?

The social credit is not nationwide yet. But it will be hugely involved in defining what a Chinese citizen is going to be able to do in life. Essentially people get graded on everything you do. Paying your bills on time, your driving record, any possible criminal/civil record, how you act while you travel, even if you jaywalk. Itâ€s all counted toward a good or bad score. And the government, with all of the cameras and facial recognition technologies, they can almost track you everywhere. 

It also seems very opaque, I donâ€t know of any appeal process. So your score determines if you can change your official location to another city (hukou), work for the government, buy a car, get a loan, buy a house, and travel. Itâ€s a credit rating of your entire life.

Big Brother just got bigger

[Alabuckeye]

I've seen a couple videos on Youtube about it. It's really scary stuff because, as you say, there is no real appeals process for incomplete or inaccurate information. Talks about broadcasting 'wrong doing' on screens about town, publicly humiliating people, which I suspect is huge considering their views on public respect.

[ChinaBuck]

I've seen a couple videos on Youtube about it.  It's really scary stuff because, as you say, there is no real appeals process for incomplete or inaccurate information.  Talks about broadcasting 'wrong doing' on screens about town, publicly humiliating people, which I suspect is huge considering their views on public respect.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/busin...23733.html

An article on how this will scored on companies as well.

[ChinaBuck]

I'm probably piling up the negative points just for posting on the zigbeenuthouse.

[ScarletHayes]

I'm probably piling up the negative points just for posting on the zigbeenuthouse.

I sort of threw some chum in the water earlier and was hoping you wouldnâ€t respond.  Nice restraint 

[lrrps21]

I'm probably piling up the negative points just for posting on the zigbeenuthouse.

[zigbee]

I'm probably piling up the negative points just for posting on the zigbeenuthouse.

Ok, I just figured out why our views went to over 50,000 in one day last week....hmmmmm.  I like it.

[Hightop77]

I'm probably piling up the negative points just for posting on the zigbeenuthouse.

Those will double when I respond.