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What does an atheist mean by ''immoral''?
#1
Morality comes from God.  That which goes against God's commandments is ''immoral''.  Atheists don't believe in God but apparently believe in ''morality'', but whose morality?  Theirs?  As far as I can tell, morality is relative for most atheists.  For instance, many atheists believe that abortion is ''moral'' and preventing a woman from having one is ''immoral''.  

If there is no God, then there is no such thing as ''morality'' and, hence, it would not be immoral for me to kill my neighbor and steal his wealth.
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#2
Morality is highly subjective. Mine differs from most, and most differ from mine.
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#3
(07-01-2019, 11:16 PM)Brutus Buckeye Wrote: Morality is highly subjective. Mine differs from most, and most differ from mine.

Do you believe that our ''moral code'' comes from God or is morality relative and dependent upon one's point of view?
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#4
(07-01-2019, 11:18 PM)K9Buck Wrote:
(07-01-2019, 11:16 PM)Brutus Buckeye Wrote: Morality is highly subjective. Mine differs from most, and most differ from mine.

Do you believe that our ''moral code'' comes from God or is morality relative and dependent upon one's point of view?

Most folks probably base their morals on their religious teachings. Others base theirs on their political dogma. Some base it on the combination of the two. Some just make it up as they go along. It is what it is.
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#5
(07-01-2019, 11:07 PM)K9Buck Wrote: Morality comes from God.  That which goes against God's commandments is ''immoral''.  Atheists don't believe in God but apparently believe in ''morality'', but whose morality?  Theirs?  As far as I can tell, morality is relative for most atheists.  For instance, many atheists believe that abortion is ''moral'' and preventing a woman from having one is ''immoral''.  

If there is no God, then there is no such thing as ''morality'' and, hence, it would not be immoral for me to kill my neighbor and steal his wealth.


I assume they mean the same things that Christians figured out when they recognized how completely immoral God's Law of the Old Testament was or how, despite the rules of the Bible,  it's immoral to own slaves or the reasoning that allowed Christians to recognize that it's wrong to deny gays the right to marry.
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#6
(07-01-2019, 11:38 PM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(07-01-2019, 11:07 PM)K9Buck Wrote: Morality comes from God.  That which goes against God's commandments is ''immoral''.  Atheists don't believe in God but apparently believe in ''morality'', but whose morality?  Theirs?  As far as I can tell, morality is relative for most atheists.  For instance, many atheists believe that abortion is ''moral'' and preventing a woman from having one is ''immoral''.  

If there is no God, then there is no such thing as ''morality'' and, hence, it would not be immoral for me to kill my neighbor and steal his wealth.


I assume they mean the same things that Christians figured out when they recognized how completely immoral God's Law of the Old Testament was or how, despite the rules of the Bible,  it's immoral to own slaves or the reasoning that allowed Christians to recognize that it's wrong to deny gays the right to marry.

The bible is clear in that God vehemently opposed slavery.
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#7
Other social animals have a variation of a "moral code" that works for them. Their code might not look moral to us of course, but any social animal group has to have "norms of behavior" that are useful for their survival.

The other Great Apes have a more recognizable moral code than say orca or wolves or lions.

A human group that had zero moral code or social norms of behavior would likely not be competitive in "the wild" back in the day. And of course we find morality even in isolated and very primitive human tribes who generally are pagan.
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#8
(07-01-2019, 11:55 PM)K9Buck Wrote:
(07-01-2019, 11:38 PM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(07-01-2019, 11:07 PM)K9Buck Wrote: Morality comes from God.  That which goes against God's commandments is ''immoral''.  Atheists don't believe in God but apparently believe in ''morality'', but whose morality?  Theirs?  As far as I can tell, morality is relative for most atheists.  For instance, many atheists believe that abortion is ''moral'' and preventing a woman from having one is ''immoral''.  

If there is no God, then there is no such thing as ''morality'' and, hence, it would not be immoral for me to kill my neighbor and steal his wealth.


I assume they mean the same things that Christians figured out when they recognized how completely immoral God's Law of the Old Testament was or how, despite the rules of the Bible,  it's immoral to own slaves or the reasoning that allowed Christians to recognize that it's wrong to deny gays the right to marry.

The bible is clear in that God vehemently opposed slavery.

Not at all. The Bible just gives rules for how to treat slaves and when a slave owner is responsible for the death of a slave.  Had God truly wanted to be 'clear', he could have included something about slavery in his top 10 list (commandments) and dropped the 'graven images' or, at the very least, combined everything God-related into one commandment to address slavery and diddling little kids (I'm looking at you, Catholics).
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#9
(07-02-2019, 06:40 AM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(07-01-2019, 11:55 PM)K9Buck Wrote:
(07-01-2019, 11:38 PM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(07-01-2019, 11:07 PM)K9Buck Wrote: Morality comes from God.  That which goes against God's commandments is ''immoral''.  Atheists don't believe in God but apparently believe in ''morality'', but whose morality?  Theirs?  As far as I can tell, morality is relative for most atheists.  For instance, many atheists believe that abortion is ''moral'' and preventing a woman from having one is ''immoral''.  

If there is no God, then there is no such thing as ''morality'' and, hence, it would not be immoral for me to kill my neighbor and steal his wealth.


I assume they mean the same things that Christians figured out when they recognized how completely immoral God's Law of the Old Testament was or how, despite the rules of the Bible,  it's immoral to own slaves or the reasoning that allowed Christians to recognize that it's wrong to deny gays the right to marry.

The bible is clear in that God vehemently opposed slavery.

Not at all. The Bible just gives rules for how to treat slaves and when a slave owner is responsible for the death of a slave.  Had God truly wanted to be 'clear', he could have included something about slavery in his top 10 list (commandments) and dropped the 'graven images' or, at the very least, combined everything God-related into one commandment to address slavery and diddling little kids (I'm looking at you, Catholics).

At least give credit to George Carlin, if you are going to butcher his 10 Commandments bit.
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#10
(07-02-2019, 06:51 AM)Brutus Buckeye Wrote:
(07-02-2019, 06:40 AM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(07-01-2019, 11:55 PM)K9Buck Wrote:
(07-01-2019, 11:38 PM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(07-01-2019, 11:07 PM)K9Buck Wrote: Morality comes from God.  That which goes against God's commandments is ''immoral''.  Atheists don't believe in God but apparently believe in ''morality'', but whose morality?  Theirs?  As far as I can tell, morality is relative for most atheists.  For instance, many atheists believe that abortion is ''moral'' and preventing a woman from having one is ''immoral''.  

If there is no God, then there is no such thing as ''morality'' and, hence, it would not be immoral for me to kill my neighbor and steal his wealth.


I assume they mean the same things that Christians figured out when they recognized how completely immoral God's Law of the Old Testament was or how, despite the rules of the Bible,  it's immoral to own slaves or the reasoning that allowed Christians to recognize that it's wrong to deny gays the right to marry.

The bible is clear in that God vehemently opposed slavery.

Not at all. The Bible just gives rules for how to treat slaves and when a slave owner is responsible for the death of a slave.  Had God truly wanted to be 'clear', he could have included something about slavery in his top 10 list (commandments) and dropped the 'graven images' or, at the very least, combined everything God-related into one commandment to address slavery and diddling little kids (I'm looking at you, Catholics).

At least give credit to George Carlin, if you are going to butcher his 10 Commandments bit.

My thoughts on the Ten Commandments aren't original, but other people, who aren't comedians, have expressed similar thoughts on how The Ten Commandments would look if truly written by a god. At no point during my post did George Carlin cross my mind.
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#11
Uh huh.


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#12
(07-02-2019, 07:17 AM)Brutus Buckeye Wrote: Uh huh.



I've read the thoughts of many people, almost exclusively atheist, about the ten commandments. I've seen / heard George Carlin's, and other comedians, thoughts on the Ten Commandments. Like I said, while I was writing that post George Carlin never once entered my mind.
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