Welcome to the zigbeenuthouse!!! Our discussion board has topics on ALL Sports and teams from college to pros, Reds, Buckeyes, Bengals, Browns, Food, US politics, religion, news, AND MORE! You MUST register with an acct. to post here. The access to read as non member is open. Please register and gain an acct. with user name to post and ENJOY this site. (June 11, 2019)

Quote of the day: People do not care until they learn how much you do. (April 03, 2020)


Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
cincydawgClimate Change (again)
#1
Back in 1980, I was fresh out of grad school and on to a new job.  Gasoline was $1.16 a gallon, for off brand "low lead".  My car was a relative gas hog with a low compression 5.7 L engine.  I was certain gas prices would be headed higher routinely, so I wanted something more efficient, and bought one in 1984 that doubled the mpgs I got on the highway (and was painfully slow, but we had a 55 mph speed limit too).  I had read about "zero petroleum by 2000" etc.  I wondered if there would be enough to make chemicals.

All that has made me very circumspect about "expert predictions" 10+ years off.  They usually sound good, but very often are nonsense.  There was a well known expert in the day called Faith Popcorn of all things that made her living on such things and wrote books which I read, and nearly everything she predicted turned out to be rubbish.

I was convinced we'd have colonies on Mars by now.  It's 2019.  I was convinced the reciprocating internal combustion engine would be long gone replaced with something sensible, perhaps fuel cells, perhaps turbines, Wankels, something.  I figured tires were as good as they'd ever get.  I figured a 4 speed transmission was clearly as many gears as we'd ever need.

So, gas prices around here range $2.50-$3.00/gallon right now for regular.  On an inflation adjusted basis, gas should cost $3.60/gallon.  And we've gone to full unleaded which is more expensive to produce of course.

We have more forests today in the US than in 1900 by a large margin.  We were looking out over the ATL yesterday from the summit of Stone Mountain and it's nearly all a green canopy.  Places like the Smoky Mountains were almost denuded of trees by 1920, and now are completely covered (almost).  Sometimes, the dot dot dot method of prediction just doesn't work.

The problem with predicting climate is that the models have to be derived based on what has happened to date.  And it's far from easy to collect even simple things like mean global temperature.  The impact of rising CO2 levels ALONE would be only tenths of a degree, it's the forcing factors added to the model that turn that into something dire.  And that makes sense, a melting ice cap decreases the albedo of the planet leading to more warming, moisture levels may change leading to more cloud cover, etc.  It's a massively complex system, and I don't think any of the models are really very good.  Maybe one is by accident.  Of course that includes the possibility that it turns out to be worse than the models predict, we might have massive permafrost melting that releases more methane and things spiral out of control.

I still don't see a viable means of controlling CO2 emissions.  Europe has invested heavily in wind and solar, and their CO2 emissions have been rising faster than those in the US, where we've seen declines over the past years (in part because we have been energy hogs).  So, I hope for the best, I don't think humans are really going to reduce CO2 emissions any time soon.  "We" sign pieces of paper in lieu of real hard plans.
Reply
#2
Climate change is getting worse since Trump pulled us out of the Honda Accord.
Reply
#3
You may need a "Civics" lesson in order to get "Fit".
Reply
#4
I just can't bring myself to believe that the estimates are Acura(te)
Reply
#5
They COULD be. They also might well not be, in either direction. All models are wrong, some models are useful.

I keep saying we're going to "run the experiment" and find out, but that will take a while.

How long will it take for warming to be obvious to nearly everyone? How about you, what clear evidence would make you "believe"?
Reply
#6
The science looks compelling. There appears to be already fairly rapid warming. I'm just hoping the models are wrong and that there are mitigating factors not controlled for. Because the notion we are going to reduce carbon emissions sufficiently within the time frames needed according to the models is nothing more than a fantasy. Not going to happen even if everyone fully buys into the situation. Impossible. Best to just go on about your day and forget about it.
Reply
#7
What are the known, accurate facts regarding global temperature the last five years or 10 years or whatever? Or are there no facts, just guesstimates?
This shouldnâ€t be that difficult.
Quote:Hard times make hard men.
Hard men make easy times. 
Easy times make soft men. 
Soft men make hard times.
Reply
#8
(04-17-2019, 09:39 AM)dkeener67 Wrote: What are the known, accurate facts regarding global temperature the last five years or 10 years or whatever? Or are there no facts, just guesstimates?
This shouldnâ€t be that difficult.

There's a consensus!  Dang deniers.
Reply
#9
Measuring mean global temperature is a very difficult, some might claim impossible, task. The satellite measurements are not viewed as reliable by many(most?). Just collecting readings from various sites is also dubious. The heat island effect has to be discounted. So, what time of day "counts"? What locations? How many do you need? What if some areas are warming and others are cooling?

I read something about this a while ago and the problem, to me, looked very challenging to solve. I don't know if we have.
Reply
#10
https://skepticalscience.com/surface-tem...vanced.htm

The site suggests they are reliable, other sites of course say otherwise. I don't know.

The rate of warming since about 1980 (there was a hiatus 1940-1975 or so) is about 0.25°C per decade. That is about half a degree F.

You can't personally tell 0.5°F per decade. (Obviously, nothing magically happens by 2030 either.) So, in 50 years the warming could be ~2.5°F. We'd notice that I think. By 2030, we'd have 50 years since 1980, so perhaps a human would start to think it seems to be warmer now that when I was a kid.

http://www.climate-skeptic.com/temperature_measurement/
Reply
#11
Count me in as one of the non-believers of climate change. Is the climate changing, yes, is it man made, maybe to a point with the CO2 levels, but I think that the climate is cyclical and has been. Until the underdeveloped nations get their CO2 in order, cutting back on our end (USA) will have little impact. It has to be a global initiative to reduce the CO2 levels. After that, we will still have the cyclical climate.
Boobs are proof that men can concentrate on 2 things at the same time
Reply
#12
What would it take for me to believe? Depends on what I'm being called to believe in.

Do I believe there is global warming? Sure.......there have been periods in earth's history that it's been hotter than it is now. It's also been cooler.

Do I believe that man can influence that? That's a little more dicey. I think it's quite obvious that we can influence the ecosystem at a micro level, but I'm more skeptical that we can, to a noticeable degree, influence it at a macro level.

I do think we need to view our existence in a more stewardship level viewpoint. We are wasteful. We do consume resources with less regard to impact than we ought. BUT......we also live in a free society where we do not want government mandating life to us.

I don't think cows are having any real effect on the issue.

I do think that we build too close to dangerous areas(coasts, rivers, etc) that are prone to weather effect, and then complain when the weather effect comes and destroys what we've built.
Reply
#13
What would it take you to believe that human activities are causing a significant warming of the climate?
Reply
#14
Somehow a removal of the political nature of this. A proof that information is not doctored to fit a certain end result/goal. A methodology that shows a definable baseline and growth pattern. Some definition on what is 'significant'.

That'd be a good start.
Reply
#15
Politicians are suing the science but the science isn't political. These are the hard sciences not BS phony academic disciplines like sociology.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  US Navy and US Army Announce Recruting Change ChinaBuck 29 462 01-29-2024, 07:39 PM
Last Post: maize
  Climate Change Agenda Beastdog 16 366 01-14-2024, 10:44 AM
Last Post: Blinky
  Cimate Change ChinaBuck 15 217 12-26-2023, 10:58 PM
Last Post: maize
  Pope Francis rebukes 'irresponsible' US on climate change compared to China maize 17 303 10-04-2023, 10:01 PM
Last Post: ScarletHayes
  Is Bill Gates taking a step back on climate change narrative? ChinaBuck 19 329 09-28-2023, 11:30 AM
Last Post: TroyKidd
  Climate Change CO2 Solution ChinaBuck 31 519 09-24-2023, 07:39 AM
Last Post: ChinaBuck
  Climate Reparations? Beastdog 22 348 09-06-2023, 07:37 PM
Last Post: ChinaBuck
  Global Climate Change: Naturally or Anthropogenically Caused? ChinaBuck 1 64 09-02-2023, 08:25 AM
Last Post: ScarletHayes
  Native Americans demand the commanders change their name back davebucknut 0 76 08-08-2023, 03:27 PM
Last Post: davebucknut
  Y’all gonna change yer mind now - Biden cured cancer ChinaBuck 3 102 07-25-2023, 08:57 PM
Last Post: unc4corners

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)
https://www.facebook.com/Zigbeenuthousecom-425755324858973/?modal=admin_todo_tour